Why do we have Pride?
[https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/f9387b2e-35d6-4c55-b7f3-b8d98747f826.jpeg] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c427dd91-ef24-41a7-9500-e9eefbe6dbf6.jpeg] [https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/1a2d0e22-7b71-4a2a-a6bd-a02895e245cc.jpeg] Source: https://www.instagram.com/p/C8NSh6FPHwJ/ [https://www.instagram.com/p/C8NSh6FPHwJ/]
It’s odd how much things change and how much they stay the same. An interesting, difficult to notice language shift amongst kids is the complete absence of context for some pejorative uses of “gay.” For instance, the catchall rejection “no way, that’s gay” would elicit confusion first and possibly indignation after. However, other pejorative uses of “gay” still exist, for instance conflating homosexuality with femininity, with femininity having a negative connotation. It’s a partial extinction of meaning and I kinda love it.
All of that to say, the future is looking up in select ways and I’m all about those minuscule victories.
I came out when I was 14 - 26 years ago (albeit as bisexual, because I didn’t know the right words yet) and I felt safe enough to do it because I knew my parents would be supportive, but in the broader world, what I mostly got was, “you’re saying that for attention,” and a lot of gross comments from teenage boys, and that was far less awful than what queer boys got, if they were even able to be out. And then Matthew Shepard was killed the next year a couple of hours from where I lived and it was like oh fuck, maybe I’ll just stick to boys because it’s not as safe as I thought.
I know kids aren’t always safe now, either, and no one in the LGBTQ+ community is safe in many parts of the world, but it really is so different already. We just have to make sure they know how much better it is, and how much better it still could be, and don’t get complacent, because we could be back to hiding the love(s) of our lives very quickly.
So you remember when the worst insult you could call a man was “F@g.” I do. Not idiot, or moron, or dumbass. “F@g.”
That’s still burned into my brain. I don’t say it, but I’m angry, it’s right there on the tip of my tongue.
“Last one in the pool is gay!”
Yep. I lived as a teenager through that era. It was all pervasive on the male identity.
If you go through my posting history, you’ll see that I know a guy who is my age who is still stuck in that mindset. He’s 53, but still likes to brag aobut fistfights in his 20’s, and presents this “I’m the most Badass who ever Badassed in history” persona that was normal at the time. It’s like he’s still 15 in his mind, which he certainly is. It’s pathetic.
He also still thinks Hair Metal is the best music ever made, Steven Seagal is a badass, and everything in life can be broken down into the dichotomy of it’s either BADASS or PUSSY. It’s interesting if it wasn’t so annoying, and obnoxious. I used to feel sorry for the guy, but over time learned it’s just malignant narcissism and psychopathy. It’s a good thing he’s mostly all mouth, or he would’ve been at Charlottesville or the Capitol on Jan 6. It wouldn’t surprise me if he eventually shot some place up, because of the “Blue Haired Feminazis and the Libcucks.” Because Fox, Matt Walsh, and Ben Shapiro told him what to think.
I am gay. I have a gay friend who uses that term in a “taking it back sense”.
I love my friend and respect him but it hurts so bad it’s to hear that. It’s honestly triggering to me because it reminds me of middle and high school.
I wish he wouldn’t use that term but maybe it is okay if we really are taking it back.
I have talked to some elder gays who seem to feel the same way about other terms like lesbian so maybe it really is a generational aversion to the slur of the time.
I don’t like feeling genuinely upset but I am willing to endure it if it means progression for LGBTQIA+ ppl.
Anyone who has a thought about this pls reply. Would really love to hear non-straight folks opinions on it, but even willing to hear straight folks opinions as long as they are respectful and non-violent. ♥️
Queer person checking in. I too dislike the F-slur because like you say, it takes me back to the worst periods of my life when that was the worst thing you could call a person.
When I was a kid, the common way to express that you didn’t like something was to call it gay. And usually it had nothing to do with gayness either, it’d be like “You signed up for soccer instead of hockey? That’s pretty gay.” “Math class is gay.” “Homework is gay.”
Even before I knew I was queer that bothered me. And the funny thing was if you called someone out for it, they’d weasel out of it by saying they didn’t have anything against gay people, you just call things gay if you don’t like them. They just didn’t see how that was wrong which made it even more frustrating to me. Like, they admit that gay = bad but then say they have nothing against gays? Well, what more can you expect from children?
Nowadays it doesn’t seem like things being gay is so bad. I’ve definitely proudly called things gay, and it feels like the word ‘gay’ is being taken back. So with time maybe that can happen with the F-slur, but for me now it’s still a super triggering thing.
I think I remember that bit, Martin was trying to convince us that “apes together strong” but the boys weren’t having it. He used the two-syllable pronunciation too, which I’d relate to using the N-word with a hard R.
I don’t really relate that bit to “taking the word back” though because I guess I don’t think of Martin as being gay. I mean, he’s 10 years old so he probably isn’t really anything yet. Then again, he is often shown to be effete and I’m sure some of the kids have called him gay before.
To me that joke was all about shock factor. It was like saying “Hey, look at this dirty word we just got away with saying on television! It’s not dirty because we used it correctly, instead of the way you expect to hear it!”
Ok, if I may make a jovial tangent for a moment: I love that you used the phrase “elder gays”. It evokes imagery of this high council of gays where they hold tribunals and wear robes, and have stereotypically gay music playing in the background as if it were you’re own version of Gregorian chants echoing through the hallowed halls of gaydom.
That would be so epic. And yes, I have adhd. 😁
The story is that he was so vain that he fell in love with, or was so horny for, his own reflection that he died.
Some versions have him starving to death because looking at himself was a higher priority that eating, others have him kill himself because he couldn’t marry/fuck himself. Nothing to do with him “not dating anyone”.
I think he was a teen in the story, but since no one was fucking, I am not so sure it was pedophillic
I’ve had to hear the F-slur at EVERY ONE of my workplaces. I’m middle aged and in tech. Makes me want to cry…
At the funeral of some homophobe straight man who finally gets a taste of his own medicine 💅
Yeah I’m in my 40’s, nonbinary but AMAB, but I didn’t really understand it until relatively recently. I’ve always known I didn’t fit into the male “mould”, but nobody knew what the fuck “nonbinary” was in the 80’s (let alone here in Finland, which is still really conservative compared to the saner Nordics) so naturally I just got beat up for being “gay” even though I was never attracted to boys or men. I even dressed in gender-conforming ways but I was never a “real” man for many boys and men, which naturally meant that they had to correct me with violence.
The conservative pieces of shit who insist that all this queer stuff is just a recent invention and in the good old days men were men and women were women are the same ones who were beating us up and even killing us just a few decades ago (not that they’ve stopped doing that…) I didn’t just suddenly decide to become an enby; I’ve always been one, but I didn’t even have the words for any of this until this stuff became more mainstream. And then they have the gall to act like this is all a choice, like I’d fucking choose to be something that means bigots will literally want to murder me for it. When I was a man they didn’t think I was doing it right, and now that I’ve realized I’m not a man they insist I’m a man. Can’t fucking win with them, can we?
I’m noticing quite the same with vegetarianism. I became vegetarian around 15 years ago, when it was still a marginalized group of people. Somehow also particularly as a man, my eating habits felt like a personal affront to other men, at least based on their reaction.
I generally don’t tell people these days, if I can avoid it, despite having had multiple colleagues that were openly vegetarian/vegan. Like, at one point, I felt like the outsider, because I had three veggie colleagues discussing veggie food and I felt like I couldn’t participate without blowing my cover, so to speak.
Fucking ridiculous, the amount of emotional abuse one goes through, for not wanting to eat meat or liking humans.
We can thank conservatives for making sure as many gays died as possible during the AIDS epidemic. I remember them openly celebrating that “God’s Will” was being enacted on earth as Reagan worked hard to stop any research, education or prevention from taking place.
Conservatives are a vulgar, sadistic, demented kind of evil. There is no place in a modern society for hate-based ideologies like conservatism.
There’s a fairly well-known story that illustrates this that I’ll paraphrase here.[1, 2]
A Redditor thought that he was being homophobic towards his gay roommate because he got mad whenever he saw his roommate with other guys. Fast forward a couple of days and after discussing this with several Redditors and his sister he finds out that what he’s feeling isn’t homophobia, but rather jealousy. Eventually him and his roommate talk it out and they end up in a relationship.
Had this happened a couple decades earlier their story would have likely gone very differently. For starters the gay roommate probably wouldn’t have been out about being gay and might have been acting in a more stereotypically “straight” manner to not raise suspicion. Had the straight guy found out that his roommate was gay there would be a higher chance that he was homophobic, and even if he wasn’t he’d be far less likely to question his own sexuality after thinking of himself as straight for his entire life. Their story only ended the way it did because they live in a time where homophobia is less prevalent in society.
As societal acceptance increases more people who experience same-sex attraction and gender dysphoria are willing to explore and adopt a non-heterosexual and/or trans identity, and more people are willing to tell that to a pollster as well.
The life expectancy of queer people also appears to be smaller for a variety of reasons, although the gap with cishet people seems to have reduced over time.
Idk about the heartwarming part In very few places would his job be safe How many friends would have dumped him, family, etc? I too am glad he got to have a partner but when do you think they got to have any romantic dinner? Hold hands in public? Kinda sick of the well-meaning stuff, which is also condescending.
I mean, sorry to make you feel bad about what you feel is sympathy. I really do hate shitting on someone’s good feelings. But maybe reconsider “heartwarming” :/
I can see the tragedy and the beauty in the situation at the same time. He spent 25 years with someone he loved, despite adverse circumstances. That’s beautiful and heartwarming.
He had to keep that love, and a big part of himself a secret until he died. That is a tragedy. Both things can be true at the same time.
I’m younger and in the same boat I’m a bi person questioning gender, and I remember what it was like 10 years ago, but due to precarious family politics I’m stuck in the closet even now. I’m horrified knowing how much worse it was 15 years ago.
I remember taking a politics class in high school around 2015, and even though I lived in a deep blue state at that time, people were debating whether or not trans people should have the right to exist, and the amount of disgust I heard in people’s voice when talking about trans people is horrifying. I remember being in heated debates on whether or not someone would have the right to refuse service to gay people because of their “religious reasons” and just knowing that things were comparatively better when I had my political awakening around then is not a very good thought. I feel bad for more elder queers who had it much worse.
Although I wouldn’t realize I was bi for a few years, I ended up finding that whole situation pretty radicalizing, and it pushed me towards more militant queer activism. People’s existence is not up for debate. Respect existence, or expect resistance.
I might show up to pride as the strangely militant straight cis ally, but I refuse to let queer rights erode to the point that it was at a decade ago, and I’ll fight for a future that I can eventually come out in, and one where people are not confined to the closet.
I’m much younger and in the same boat.
I’ve only told a small group of friends, most of who are queer so they understand. I haven’t told my family or most of my friends, considering that a mistake would reusult in my family knowing. I’m bi and probably nonbinary.
I have some very bigoted family, fuck em. I don’t mind burning bridges with them, even though it would hurt for a little while. This family has cheered for the deaths of queer people, such as Nix Benedict. They have supported calls for genocide against queers, they have a huge amount of bigotry.
However, about 10-12 years ago, there was a debate over the existence of queer people in my family, regarding a string of current events about lgbt rights. My grandma, was the only person on that side of the US who supported the right for queer people to exist. My bigoted family was so upset that they just cut her out. She was blocked by that side of the family on social media, they’d drop her calls, and wouldn’t visit. My grandma was devastated. After the death of my grandfather, she was even more isolated, having nobody within 400 miles who would talk to her. Though she met up with the whole family to mourn for the funeral, she was still isolated for another month after it, until things healed a few months later and she was able to talk with that side of the family again.
I refuse to be the person who is the wedge in my family. I know my grandma good enough that she would still love and support me as a queer person, but I refuse to cause another split in my family that would harm my already very lonely and isolated grandma.
Even as an otherwise militant queer who has no problem coming out in a rough area like where I used to live, I draw the line on harming vulnerable people like my grandma. I just hate this situation so much.
I, late-50s straight cis man, found out that a man that I had worked with for 20 years was gay. I had never given his sexual preference and thought and didn’t care either way. His boyfriend asked me not to say anything at work because he wasn’t out. I said I wouldn’t.
That year we invited them to our Christmas party. The boyfriend came but the guy from work didn’t. The boyfriend said that he didn’t come because he was afraid that people from work would be there find out.
I talked to him a couple of months later and told him that he should come out. I told him that people at work would say either, “I know/I suspected” or, “I don’t care I just want you to process this paperwork.” Later he told me that he had come out at work and that I was exactly right about people’s reactions.
Being closeted to your family is extremely stressful. I hope you find a way to come out and that they accept you.
My daughter came out to me several years ago. I love her more than life itself.
Relevant
I had a hard time understanding how pride helped people, even as a trans woman.
Like even (nearly) one year I to my transition I still fail to present differently in public because of the shame, I have a hard time with people already and this is a lot, this ruined my motivation to do anything feminine (what’s the point of trying I’ll never look good blah blah) I’m still a bit like this to some extent, but I went to my first pride parade and I’m absolutely stunned, I saw some drag queens and even though they are cis men they manage to look good, they were unapologetic and proud of who they were, and THIS HELPS, heck seing other transfem IRL makes me understand that were all going through something similar and if we wish to be happy and fulfilled we should be out no matter where we are into our transition, it’s honestly making me consider coming out to my friends. Because now I see that I’m not a freak and a good amount of ppl are like me.
Also I found out that the cute “male” cashier was probably a trans woman and she looks really good, I’m happy for “him”. :)
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