While I think that’s dope it does feel like it gives Russia valid cause to strike them in host countries and kind of feels like a deliberate provocation to do so?

Russia already stated that they will do precisely that, so this moves us one step closer to a nuclear holocaust. Hope it was worth it.

Russia has stated many things they will do, but haven’t then actually done. Why would this time be different? …wikipedia.org/…/Red_lines_in_the_Russo-Ukrainian…

Pretty much none of those were actually stated by Russia. The trend has been that it’s the west that make up these red lines, then crosses them and says, see nothing happened. Last I checked, the actual red line Russia set out was Ukraine joining NATO, and when that red line was ignored the war started. This notion that you can just keep pushing a nuclear superpower and nothing bad will happen is imbecilic beyond belief.

There are sources given for the claims. If they are inaccurate you should remove the sources, and the claim itself if there are no good sources supporting it anymore.

If you bother reading the sources, then you’ll see that these aren’t primary sources of anything the Russian government said. These are articles and interpretations by western analysts and think tanks. Feel free to link statements from the Russian government though.

Again, if a source is incorrect, feel free to remove it.

Again, provide primary sources for your claims.

I already have sources. If you don’t believe them, it’s up to you to show that, not me to provode you with endless sources that you anyway will reject for some reason.

Do you understand the concept of a primary source?

Yes.

then feel free to provide some

I’m happy with the current ones, thanks.

You did not provide any primary sources, so evidently you don’t understand what a primary source is. Good chat.

Where are your primary sources?

Does that also mean you don’t understand what they are?

See this does not work the way you think it does.

I’m not the one making the claim. I’m saying that I have not seen any official Russian statement to this effect. However, if you have a source for one then please show it.

See this does not work the way you think it does.

They did and some of us watched it live (we are told) on russian state TV in 2022,2023 and just last month. Please provide primary sources that contradict what I witnessed.

still waiting for that official statement bud, should be really easy to find since you obviously wouldn’t make things up

Wrong person, you want @[email protected]

But yes, if you want to have a official statement watch the victory day parade speech putin made.

Again, feel free to link to the part of the parade where Putin says what you two are claiming he said. Should be really easy to do since it’s publicly available.

Should be, go nuts look it up.

I can’t look up what does not exist. There is no such statement, you made it up and now you’re asking me to prove a negative.

www.bbc.com/news/uk-64397745

politico.eu/…/putin-threaten-arm-west-enemy-with-…

www.youtube.com/watch?v=RyanPIR-898

aljazeera.com/…/how-real-is-putins-threat-to-nuke…

armscontrol.org/…/putin-calls-reservists-renews-n…

reuters.com/…/putin-warns-west-russia-will-strike…

nypost.com/…/putin-threatens-preemptive-nuclear-s…

cbc.ca/…/putin-ukraine-nato-nuclear-weapons-1.636…

inquirer.com/…/victory-day-putin-zelensky-ukraine…

washingtonpost.com/…/putin-russia-state-union-spe…

Oh yeah, that is how that must work for you every statement you make is true and anyone else needs to provide proof otherwise, and it does not count if you don’t agree.

Are you taking the piss mate??

The BBC.com is the UK government. They are not the Russian military. I’m confused why you thought they’d be. So no, they are not a primary source.

Politico.eu isn’t the Russian military either. Did you think they were part of the BBC maybe and since BBC is Russia, Politico would be Russia too? Anyway, they’re actually a German private business. They aren’t a primary source either obviously.

ABC News also isn’t the Russian military. Did you really think the Russian military controlled all the major Western news sites??

Aljazeera.com is also not the Russian state. They are the government of Qatar. It’s a completely different country. Not a primary source.

Armscontrol.org is not the Russian government. They’re a lobbying group in the USA. You need to scroll down to see where it says, but it’s on the page you linked, so it’s weird you didn’t notice. As a general tip, Russian government websites are on the .ru top-level-domain.

Reuters.com is the UK government again. They’re still not Russia and still not a primary source. Did you think the UK was part of Russia?

nypost.com isn’t a primary source either. The “ny” is short for “new york” which is a city in the USA. The USA and Russia are different countries.

cbc.ca is a Canadian thing, the .ca means Canada. If you thought Russia owned the UK maybe that’s where you went wrong, since The UK owned Canada at some point in the past, but actually Canada is a sovereign country now. They’re not part of the UK or of Russia.

inquirer.com is the website for the Philadelphia inquirer, it’s the same situation as the nytimes one, where it’s named after a city in the USA, because they are not Russian. The Russian military didn’t name themselves after a city in the USA. It’s really strange you would think they did.

Washington post is named after another city in the USA. “Washington”. Did you really think all of these outlets were the Russian military, or did you perhaps just not know what a primary source is?

Funny you bring up primary sources…

Funny your only response to being destroyed with facts and logic is a pithy one-liner.

Oh? news to me. I was just showing that the world outside russia agrees putin has on a few occasions threatened the use of strategic weapons (because he did).

See the best part of the thing you are replying to is that you can not seem to tell me apart from other people. My “pithy one-liner” was a dig on how another .Ml person just so happens to show up to have the argument as the russian apologist. No where did I claim to provide any primary sources, in fact if you look you can see me making fun of that requirement.

But hey, at least you are a fan of Ben Shapiro. That must be neat.

I was just showing that the world outside russia agrees putin has on a few occasions threatened the use of strategic weapons.

Why? Why are you showing this? Your evidence is weaker than that shown by [email protected] and pushes the same agenda as that post. Your post is completely superfluous unless you can address the specific shortcoming of that post, which is a shortcoming of proof.

This is [email protected]’s reply to [email protected]’s post.

Pretty much none of those were actually stated by Russia. The trend has been that it’s the west that make up these red lines, then crosses them and says, see nothing happened. Last I checked, the actual red line Russia set out was Ukraine joining NATO, and when that red line was ignored the war started. This notion that you can just keep pushing a nuclear superpower and nothing bad will happen is imbecilic beyond belief.

If you bother reading the sources, then you’ll see that these aren’t primary sources of anything the Russian government said. These are articles and interpretations by western analysts and think tanks. Feel free to link statements from the Russian government though.

To which you replied. Now given that your message is a reply and not a new thread, it’s should be expected to actually respond to the criticism that there was a lack of proof. A proof of a statement is very easy to get, since all you need to do is link the statement or a recording of the statement. This isn’t a case where you’re asked to prove something where proof wouldn’t exist or could be ambiguous.

Now in this most recent reply, you pretend that you didn’t realise the current topic was about finding primary sources. But if we go further back in the thread, this reply from you shows that you do actually understand that you’re being asked to provide a primary source:

Where are your primary sources?

I’m using “you’re” to include your side of the argument, not “thou”. You also claim to have a primary source available. Linking this source with a timestamp should be easy for you. This would completely win the argument in your favour. The only reason you wouldn’t do this is if you are deliberately lying.

They did and some of us watched it live (we are told) on russian state TV in 2022,2023 and just last month. Please provide primary sources that contradict what I witnessed. But yes, if you want to have a official statement watch the victory day parade speech putin made.

Putin is a primary source on the statements Putin has made. This is excellent for you because if he said something to the effect of what was alleged by [email protected] then you will have addressed [email protected]’s two comments. [email protected] made a strong emotional argument which you agree with, its only shortcoming is that it’s lacking supporting evidence. You joined this thread to provide supporting evidence, because emotional rhetoric was already supplied by [email protected]. Do you see now how adding additional and weaker emotional arguments is not further strengthening the emotional argument? This is because the emotional argument is already strong enough, it simply needs to be supported by evidence so that it can be considered.

You recognised this in the past and are now deliberately lying about your intentions. You wrote:

Should be [easy to find], go nuts look it up.

This is because you knew that if the evidence existed, it would’ve completed [email protected]’s argument, which you agreed with. You didn’t deny the existence of the proof because you understood that it would cause the argument to not be considered. You also didn’t provide the proof yourself because didn’t want to. Potentially because you knew it didn’t exist, which would be a second lie. But regardless, you have lied once during this argument.

[email protected]’s next comment which you responded to is the following.

I can’t look up what does not exist. There is no such statement, you made it up and now you’re asking me to prove a negative.

This is the comment which you chose to respond to by “showing that the world outside russia agrees putin has on a few occasions threatened the use of strategic weapons.”

This makes no sense. That is not a sensible reply to that comment. Why would you assume anyone else would follow when you switch topics unannounced? You wouldn’t. You are lying about the intention of your comment. Your comment was meant to be interpreted as primary sources. You were hoping no one would notice that you failed to provide them.

This is the evidence for you now claiming to not have intended to provide primary sources. This is a quote from you, so it’s a primary source.

My “pithy one-liner” was a dig on how another .Ml person just so happens to show up to have the argument as the russian apologist. No where did I claim to provide any primary sources, in fact if you look you can see me making fun of that requirement.

Neither [email protected] nor I are Lemmy.ml users. [email protected] can’t be described as a Russian apologist since no Russian claims were addressed or apologised for. The only claims that have been substantiated in this thread with evidence were western ones.

You end by saying you were making fun of the requirement to provide evidence. This is a stupid statement. This is clearly a lie because no reasonable person would think it is anything but expected for evidence to be part of an argument or statement.