Shoq 🌿What amazes me is how the Twitter diaspora that scattered journalists and audiences across multiple platforms, hasn’t made it clear to everyone why an Open Social network should be everyone’s priority. Humanity needs it to be free of corporate and psychopathic platform owners.
AI6YR Ben@shoq What's strange to me that a lot of those folks ONLY trust corporate platforms, which has been proven to be detrimental time and time again.
Coach Pāṇini ®
Zalasur 🐸🇺🇦@paninid @ai6yr @shoq I think it's more basic than that. We all know that the corporate social networks are poison, but if it's what you're imprinted on then anything outside of that experience appears alien and invokes a fear response. It's a really powerful driver of human behavior.
So it's less the case that people are appealing to authority and more that people are being creatures of habit.
Ernie Smith@shoq We like a home-cooked meal, but don’t want to do the home cooking.
Paul McO'Smith III@shoq @andypiper humanity wants one thing from social media. something non-technical. easy to find friends and interests without having to know a single thing about the platform. bunches of them want advertising (someone is paying for all those ads). they want dull. hence the media constantly quote twitter, but never facebook. it's dull there, but simple. mastodon is not simple. "see on the original profile" is a distinctly toxic message for users, even me. the fact that i see server profiles at all is perplexing. it is simply not user-friendly or intuitive. it is clearly designed by technical people for technical people. as a result it is not going to attract people in their masses. there's no "quote tweet", one of the biggest use cases. and what the hell is this below? i'm here and using the platform as much as twitter, but for very, very narrow conversations, mainly with technical people. unless you fix this, people will not come. </rant>
@pavsmith @andypiper Thanks for recapping the bad, misleading, and often wrong takes from 2022, here in 2024. We should never forget how mangled a good idea can be in the hands of a lazy tech press, and few know-it-all influencers 😎
@shoq @andypiper what i describe is my lived experience on the platform every day. why are you @shoq - or the other 3+ profiles with that name - and not simply @shoq ? which is you, and how can i tell? who or what am i trusting?
@shoq @andypiper ...or is this a problem with the server i am on?
@shoq @andypiper or just simply unpopular and antithetical to the accepted narrative?
@pavsmith @andypiper But you’re not being unpopular or antithetical. You’re just regurgitating a list of trite popular narratives that were formed when the world was told that Mastodon was the fediverse, and they could enable viable “twitter alternative” almost out of the box for ordinary users. We’ve heard all those opinions, ad nauseum. Bring something new, or there’s not much to discuss.
@shoq @andypiper i'll reiterate, it is my lived experience. i have not typed anything that has not happened to me this week on Mastodon. are you claiming that it in fact doesn't work like that? or having to view something on the original server. the advantage of something like a twitter, or google even, is that you are exposed to basically zero complexity, or forced to understand how the platform works under the covers despite the fact that they are massive distributed applications. i'd be happy with a "complex mode" for those people that need/want it, but really, this is not ready for the mainstream public. just having a pick a server at the start is a "what the...?" moment.
@shoq @andypiper plus if i'm repeating something i have never seen any of that commentary anywhere else, and have come up with it through use of the platform only. perhaps people are getting used to the quirks and normalising it.
@pavsmith @andypiper But you seem to feel this is some brilliant and unique insight and it’s galling to listen to. Especially when you include core masto developers like @andypiper in these rants. Do you actually think he and the rest of us true believers are not aware of those issues, complaints, quibbles, and more? EVERY DEVELOPER I KNOW IS.
The issue is how the concept of evolves from here, fully accepting of the many challenges that are WELL KNOWN and …
FREQUENTLY discussed by entire communities of interested stakeholders here (whilst Threads actors complain that 170k users is just not big enough for their brand). We don’t want a new Twitter. We want something Twitter and Threads can never be on their own. They should be children of a truly Open Social system, not the parents of it. So in pursuit of that goal, there are bigger issues right now than whether grandma wants her old-fashioned Twitter back.
@shoq @andypiper @andypiper i have known Andy for about 20 years from his days in IBM, and at one point we more or less worked in the same team. i suspect i can have a sane and reasonable conversation without being vindictive. this was my original intent before it kicked off into this thread. i certainly remember Andy's early advocacy for social media... 😎
complaining that someone is saying something that has been said before by others, and functionally denying any of it exists, has been distinctly unhelpful. hence my "my lived experience" comments. i was utterly perplexed.
anyway, the platform has quirks and limitations. don't badger people mentioning this, and especially don't complain "this has been covered before".
@pavsmith @andypiper @andypiper I couldn’t know you were friends with Andy, so I apologize. Just seemed like reply-guy behavior. I know these same arguments irritate almost everyone, so I assumed he’d not disagree much. The point remains, that rather than ask how people are addressing these well-worn matters, you posture as if recapping them is itself being insightful or constructive. We all know usability and onboarding matters. Really, we do.
@shoq @andypiper @andypiper Do you actually think he and the rest of us true believers are not aware of those issues, complaints, quibbles, and more? EVERY DEVELOPER I KNOW IS." - then you have a problem. you need to fix this. i did not intend to comment other than "this is really not good". devs who get feedback and go "yeah! i know!" aren't helping the problem. i am in the middle of a development project at IBM at the moment and giving field feedback. i am deliberately brutal. no fucking about. devs with sensitivities to feedback are not helping. btw, i am always open to being told "paul... fuck off" as long as it is explicable. i'll take it, shrug, and head off to the next thing. none of it is personal.
@shoq @andypiper @andypiper mr. @andypiper will recall what an irascible and difficult arse i am if he chooses to wade in. i am unrepentant in this regard.
@shoq @andypiper @andypiper at the same time, consistent and constant feed back means you probably have an issue.
@pavsmith And i never denied any of those those things exist. Not even once. I simply implied they were very old arguments, the mere recapping of which has not much value unless you wanted to also suggest how some of those issues can be mitigated going forward. Just telling me about network efforts, or that users want simple interfaces and experiences is like telling me that water runs downhill more easily than up. I don’t need any convincing.
Let’s move on. You’re here, so …
you must think there is some future for you here. How do YOU think decentralized networking can “catch on” with mainstream audiences, so it might one day be a better alternative than central silos of big social. We know how that works out. I have years of ideas and a few projects in motion. What are some of yours?
Joe Ortiz@shoq They're just too addicted to the reach and follower counts to leave much like sports journalists IMO, which is a damn shame.