fossilesque
Zachariah
4grams
GodortNo, you dont understand. All the historical records of that period, I’ve seen dont have black people doing things.
What do you mean fantasy moviesfrom the 80s aren’t historical records?
Before the Caliphates happened and christendom responded by creating the north south division, it was entirely unreasonable to view any part of the Mediterranean as distinct from the greater cultural whole aside from specifics about who specifically was living where at what time.
In fact Islamic empires regularly had an irredentist idea about their right to dominate the Mediterranean granted by being the true inheritors of the Roman Empire (especially after they took Istanbul)
Even in that time of division though, the typical Venetian had far more in common with the Typical Tunisian than they did with the typical Dane. Could even be part of how the “Protestant World” ended up looking so similar to a map of “the parts of Europe that were the least integrated into the Mediterranean core of Catholicism’s historical forming grounds and institutions”
Not in medieval England, or other Northern European countries. They existed but they very much stood out. And most fantasy settings tend to be northern European.
It would be fucking cool to see a medieval Spanish style fantasy setting though.
Not in medieval England, or other Northern European countries.
Objectively false.
You don’t believe Spain is part of Europe, or you’re insisting that their comment must mean something beyond it literally said?
Because their comment was ultimately just about the fact that there was more than enough contact between Africa and Europe for random black people to be Arthurian knights or whatever. And that’s just a fact.
This might really grind your gears: There were even black Vikings.
There’s evidence of Viking slave raids and reading expeditions in the Mediterranean, specifically on the North African and Southern Spanish coasts, not to mention all the contact they had with Byzantium.
I’m saying Spain having Moors doesn’t really warrant saying Medieval Europe (as a whole) had “a lot of black people” imo.
So, yes, there were a lot of black people in medieval Europe. Just not as a notable percentage of the total population outside of Southern Spain, but in the sense that even today a couple thousand people is still a lot of people.
Just not as a notable percentage of the total population
Indeed
And I’m saying they didn’t say that. Because they didn’t.
You’re saying that, because you’re invested for some reason in black people not being on screens in a fictional world.
It’s just when someone says there was a lot of black people in Medieval Europe it does peak ones interest because there really wasn’t by how you’d first think of what “a lot” means.
You’re saying that, because you’re invested for some reason in black people not being on screens in a fictional world.
It can be a bit funny and seem inaccurate is all. If someone wants to put in black people to such setting or whites to Ancient Chinese setting or whatever then by all means. It just might not accurately represent the typical situation at the time.
XtallllOne of Arthur’s knights is literally from Africa
Granted he was portrayed as having vitiligo instead of just being biracial (his dad was a white guy who was a famous traveling knight)
Point still stands though, the historians of the day themselves literally saw nothing weird about that other than “oh yeah this cool guy came to the court from Africa too. His armor is a bit fancy and decorative but he swears it’s a symbol of the pride his Queen wanted to project for his country.”
𝔄 𝔰𝔢𝔫𝔱𝔦𝔢𝔫𝔱 𝔭𝔦𝔢𝔠𝔢 𝔬𝔣 𝔠𝔥𝔢𝔢𝔰𝔢I always found his descriptions very funny, or, not really the description itself, but the thought process of the original storytellers it reveals.
“Well there’s people with light skin and people with dark skin, so when they mix… The baby looks like… A cow?”
Although, now I actually wonder, did they know better and this was just something to make Feirefiz stand out?
Correct me if I’m wrong but you mean Feirefiz? Who is a Saracen knight who attends a feast held by King Arthur and not one of Arthur’s knights?
I wouldn’t refer to Wolfram von Eschenbach a historian either.
There’s also this guy.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moriaen
Moraien is quite interesting because it’s a story very much from the medieval period that demonstrates both literal racism (though not quite our modern interpretation) and that the moral lesson is don’t be a racist…
To Other Christians.
and that the moral lesson is don’t be a racist
But is he a building?
therealjcdentonIf you’re passing them off as just regular people nbd in that setting then yeah that’d be inaccurate.
Then again, plopping in random white people into an Ancient Chinese setting would be pretty inaccurate too, even though there might’ve been “some non zero number” of whites over there at the time. Or in a random crowd shot of Nazi soldiers you plop in a few black soldiers. Certainly existed, but it does make it seem inaccurate (and silly imo).
“Most historical settings”
Roman sure, especially as you get closer to Africa but nonzero elsewhere also
Middle ages, mediæval and renaissance almost certainly limited to higher nobility households either as nobles or “interesting” servants or major trading ports, especially closer to Africa.
The chances of a mediæval serf in a germanic country are functionally zero though, as anyone who came with the Romans will have been long dead with their genetics widely dispersed, and anyone who came over recently would likely be in an urban area, with marriage or higher level employment being their only chance to end up in a rural area.