streetfestival

The ugly truth behind ChatGPT: AI is guzzling resources at planet-eating rates

https://lemmy.ca/post/22239178

The ugly truth behind ChatGPT: AI is guzzling resources at planet-eating rates - Lemmy.ca

> Despite its name, the infrastructure used by the “cloud” accounts for more global greenhouse emissions than commercial flights. In 2018, for instance, the 5bn YouTube hits for the viral song Despacito used the same amount of energy it would take to heat 40,000 US homes annually. > Large language models such as ChatGPT are some of the most energy-guzzling technologies of all. Research suggests, for instance, that about 700,000 litres of water could have been used to cool the machines that trained ChatGPT-3 at Microsoft’s data facilities. > Additionally, as these companies aim to reduce their reliance on fossil fuels, they may opt to base their datacentres in regions with cheaper electricity, such as the southern US, potentially exacerbating water consumption issues in drier parts of the world. > Furthermore, while minerals such as lithium and cobalt are most commonly associated with batteries in the motor sector, they are also crucial for the batteries used in datacentres. The extraction process often involves significant water usage and can lead to pollution, undermining water security. The extraction of these minerals are also often linked to human rights violations and poor labour standards. Trying to achieve one climate goal of limiting our dependence on fossil fuels can compromise another goal, of ensuring everyone has a safe and accessible water supply. > Moreover, when significant energy resources are allocated to tech-related endeavours, it can lead to energy shortages for essential needs such as residential power supply. Recent data from the UK shows that the country’s outdated electricity network is holding back affordable housing projects. > In other words, policy needs to be designed not to pick sectors or technologies as “winners”, but to pick the willing by providing support that is conditional on companies moving in the right direction. Making disclosure of environmental practices and impacts a condition for government support could ensure greater transparency and accountability.

May 30, 2024 at 11:39amWeb
Show threadpaf0May 30, 2024
Yes it does, and wait until you hear about literally every other industry.
Show threadUraniumBlazerMay 30, 2024
But no, AI bad AI bad AI bad AI bad lalalaa I can’t hear you AI bad /s
Show threadSacredHeartAttackMay 30, 2024
Seems like you’re hearing it perfectly, but not listening.
Show threadnickMay 30, 2024
Dumb.
Show threadLainTrainMay 30, 2024

“The world is complicated and scary! I don’t understand it so it must be bad! M-muh planet farting cows evil industry fuck the disabled/sick/queer!” - What luddites actually believe.

Anprims/eco-fashes begone. If the planet was destroyed for the betterment of conditions for the proletariat today and future alike there’d be literally no issue, it’s just some rock lol, AI is far better. Also brutalism and soviet blocs are the best architectural styles, everything else is bourgeois cringe.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
This is the same excuse crypto bros make. Though that makes sense because the venn diagram between AI evangelists that blow up like the Hindenburg the moment you levy any critique against AI and its usage is basically a circle with crypto bros who assure us that any day now it will stop being treated like penny stocks and actually be useful “because they just like the tech.”
Show threadUraniumBlazerMay 30, 2024
Cryptocurrencies have no real world applications. AI does.
Show threaddinckelMay 30, 2024
Such as?
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024

As a professional editor (video/audio) AI has drastically altered my work in amazing, productive ways.

I’m still a critic of course. For some industries it’s clearly a solution in search of a problem so they can hype investment. A tool being useful doesn’t mean I’m unable to critique it!

Show threadEven_AdderMay 30, 2024
What about this?
ToonCrafter: Generative Cartoon Interpolation - Divisions by zero

# Abstract >We introduce ToonCrafter, a novel approach that transcends traditional correspondence-based cartoon video interpolation, paving the way for generative interpolation. Traditional methods, that implicitly assume linear motion and the absence of complicated phenomena like dis-occlusion, often struggle with the exaggerated non-linear and large motions with occlusion commonly found in cartoons, resulting in implausible or even failed interpolation results. To overcome these limitations, we explore the potential of adapting live-action video priors to better suit cartoon interpolation within a generative framework. ToonCrafter effectively addresses the challenges faced when applying live-action video motion priors to generative cartoon interpolation. First, we design a toon rectification learning strategy that seamlessly adapts live-action video priors to the cartoon domain, resolving the domain gap and content leakage issues. Next, we introduce a dual-reference-based 3D decoder to compensate for lost details due to the highly compressed latent prior spaces, ensuring the preservation of fine details in interpolation results. Finally, we design a flexible sketch encoder that empowers users with interactive control over the interpolation results. Experimental results demonstrate that our proposed method not only produces visually convincing and more natural dynamics, but also effectively handles dis-occlusion. The comparative evaluation demonstrates the notable superiority of our approach over existing competitors. Paper: https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.17933v1 [https://arxiv.org/abs/2405.17933v1] Code: https://github.com/ToonCrafter/ToonCrafter [https://github.com/ToonCrafter/ToonCrafter] Project Page: https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/ [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/] ## Limitations Input starting frame [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/05limitation/74845_304_frame1.png] Input ending frame [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/05limitation/74845_304_frame3.png] Our failure case Your browser does not support playing HTML5 video. You can download a copy of the video file [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/05limitation/74845_304_WOurs.mp4] instead. Input starting frame [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/05limitation/74244_465.mp4_00-00.png] Input ending frame [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/05limitation/74244_465.mp4_00-01.png] Our failure case Your browser does not support playing HTML5 video. You can download a copy of the video file [https://doubiiu.github.io/projects/ToonCrafter/05limitation/74244_465.mp4] instead.

Show threadTurunMay 30, 2024

I’ve used it to improve selected paragraphs of my writing, provide code snippets and find an old comic based on a crude description of a friend.

I feel like these interactions were valuable to me and only one (code snippets) could have been easily replaced with existing tools.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
I agree it does. But that has nothing to do with how energy intensive it currently is. You can see in my other comment that I am an advocate for it in my own work - it has great uses in some industries.
Show threadSckharshantallasMay 30, 2024

AI evangelists act like it’s already perfect and anybody who dares question the church of LLM is declared a Luddite.

I don’t think that’s the case, though. The only people actively “evangelizing” LLMs are either companies looking for investors or influencers looking for attention by tapping on people’s insecurities.

Most people just either find it useful for some use cases or just hate it.

Show threadFiniteBanjoMay 30, 2024
You’re doing it right now. You’re criticizing that user for saying it’s okay to talk about AI’s failures. You’re the example, evangelizing and shilling.
Show threadSckharshantallasMay 31, 2024

It seems like you missed the memo on reading comprehension. I literally quoted the exact part I’m criticizing, which clearly isn’t what you claimed.

And telling people to STFU online? That’s a masterclass in civility right there.

Show threadFiniteBanjoJun 1, 2024

Ohmahgosh you’re so right, I see it now, you telling them they were wrong to criticize AI was in fact the correct take all along. You’ve shown me the way, All Hail AI. ALL HAIL AI.

What a fucking shill.

Show threadLainTrainMay 30, 2024

That’s wrong, I buy drugs online with cryptocurrencies all the time to this day and have done it long before the normies showed up and turned it into a mostly financial scam.

Evading the man and LEOs when the law ain’t right is my god-given right and I’m thankful to be born in the age of onions and crypto.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
Crypto bros hate you lol I think you use it the only way it’s actually useful. Drugs and tax evasion.
Show threadLainTrainMay 30, 2024

Good, I hate cryptobros and aibros and artbros and luddites and industrialists and environmentalists, but I love communal living, hate cities, love AI (and AI art), love art (and craft of said art), love nature & the environment and animals, hate vegans, and love science and ndustry etc.

At this point I have such an ultra-niche hyper-specific take on this (and almost everything) that I feel completely out of touch with most people which seem at first glance to navigate mostly by vibes and emotions of how they feel about a vague aesthetic sense of modernity that day.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
If you could hold your breath long enough to get out of your first world bubble, you would be able to see that bitcoin is massively popular amongst people who need ways to escape their collapsing fiat currencies. It is hilarious how spoiled people who happen to be born in countries where everything is taken care of them are too thick and compationless to even consider that other people have actual problems.
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
Is that why you use it? Because of your collapsing fiat currency?
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024

I’m lucky enough to be from a country with a relatively stable fiat currency, although it is unclear how much longer that will be the case. In order to protect the value I’ve gained from my work, I do hold some of it in Bitcoin. I also use it to support charitable efforts in less fortunate countries. It is an excellent way to transfer value to exactly who I want to transfer it to without giving massive fees to banks and other companies that facilitate the transfer of funds.

A big thing to remember is that whenever you hold any countries currency, you are basically giving them a blank check to your energy. You are telling them that they can have as much of the value that you have saved that they want. When they print more money, they are taking that value directly from you. It is one thing to pay taxes on income, property, and goods purchased and sold, but on top of that, they have the ability to extract extra value from you just by running their printers. The more you believe that a government represents you and has your best wishes at heart, the more you should be holding their currency.

Show threadKrauerkingMay 30, 2024

I’m lucky enough to be from a country with a relatively stable fiat currency,

Oh my God that’s hilarious that you are just making up a strawman of it being helpful for reasons you don’t even use.

What a weird libertarian crypto shill perspective that is so absolutely unhelpful for anyone.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
Wow. It is incredible how deeply ingrained selfishness is in you. You’re literally incapable of giving any value to anything that helps anyone other than yourself. You must live such a sad, lonely life that you can’t even imagine that there people could exist that are not 100% focused on themselves.
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024

Just so you know, you are entirely misunderstanding what the term “strawman” is used to refer to. In general, it will make you at least appear to be intelligent if you use words in the proper context.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

I didn’t set up any opposing point of view to argue with. No matter what your view on this issue is, that simply isn’t what I’ve done in this situation.

Despite the fact that we are on different sides of an issue, I was still able to help you with something that may prevent you from looking stupid in the future. See how that works? Someone doing something to help someone other than themself.

Straw man - Wikipedia

Show threadKrauerkingMay 30, 2024

Nah.
You created your own fake argument for crypto currency despite not using it that way and not being the conversation when it’s about energy use.

You built your own strawman. Of an imaginary person that is benefiting in a way that makes you feel better.

You are also condescending. It doesn’t make you right in an argument it makes you self assured and self serving. Looks like I was helpful too.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024

They are not imaginary. There are millions of them. I’ve met many of them, and so can you if you ever decide that people from poorer countries are worth your time.

And again, that simply isn’t what a strawman is. Read the link. Everything else aside, you are not using that word in the way people use it. It is as if you are insisting French people say “bone apple tea” before they eat, and then you are calling my condescending for letting you know that you misheard it. I understand it can be hard to admit when you were mistaken, but quite frankly, it will end up causing less harm to your ego in the long run if you do.

Show threadKrauerkingMay 30, 2024

You are just full of slightly wrong information aren’t you.

That is what a straw man is. It’s an argument that you make up for the purpose of having an easy win.

Literally an example is getting bribed and buying a dog and when people complain about the bribe you say people don’t like dogs but you do.

“Crypto is hurting the planet.”

Well actually it’s helping poor people that I am not one of but are totally aided by this.

Also a “Bone Apple Tea” is when someone says something like “as the Japanese say Sorry-naw-ra” you are wrong goodbye.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024

I understand that Bone Apple Tea is a different type of mistake then what you are making. I was just pointing out that you were misunderstanding something, and when someone corrects you, you get defensive instead of trying to learn.

Someone said crypto has no use, I pointed out that for millions of people, it does have a use. You may not like this fact, but that doesn’t make the response invalid.

Show threadKrauerkingMay 30, 2024
*than
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
Thank you!
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024

So you lecture me about a bubble I supposedly live in - you know nothing about me by the way - and then prop up someone else’s theoretical problem/solution to make your point?

I’m not saying you have to only pull from your own life’s experience, but you have to understand why this makes me raise an eyebrow.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024

I have lived in countries like what I’ve described and spent much time with people who are from there, and I financially support people from such places. I see nothing wrong with sharing their situation with people who think they know everything about how a technology is used when they clearly do not.

Yes, I assume you and others are from privileged societies based on your perspective and the things you say. Sometimes, it is very obvious when people have lived their lives in very specific environments.

The way you come across is as someone who doesn’t see any use in getting to know people from societies very different from your own. Simultaneously, you want to feel like you have the correct way of seeing the world, and anyone who sees it differently must be malicious and playing some sort of trick on you. Whenever you feel like you have it all figured out, that’s when you should be looking for your blind spot.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
It’s not obvious. You think it’s obvious. You know very little about me or where I have lived, learned, etc. This patronizing tone is undeserved and frankly, you can go pound sand. Have a good rest of your weekend.
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
If you lived or have been around people struggling with collapsing currencies, then you wouldn’t be so naive and bitter towards the solutions that many are using.
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
👍
Show threadKrauerkingMay 30, 2024
You ever think you project a lot on others?
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
No no see he has lived among the common people he alone can advocate for their interests. Eat, Pray, Love is basically about him. He is enlightened now.
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
Not me alone. I can’t advocate for them as well as they can for themselves. It must drive you nuts that so many people stand up for the Gazans.
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
Wow you really are just flinging shit at the wall and seeing what sticks aren’t you?
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
I’m sorry about your camera. That genuinely must have been really scary. It is great to have those kinds of experiences in your life. I hope you continue to have a passion to stand up for what you believe in, even when other people try to intimidate you and belittle you out of what you know to be true and good.
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
Don’t try and high road me after all the nasty things you said about me with no reason other than you’re a petty, small person who couldn’t stand seeing the pristine name “crypto” besmirched. Fuck off.
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
99.99% of crypto is rubbish. If you think I said something incorrect, then point it out and ask for an explanation. Discussion isn’t nearly as awful as you are making it out to be.
Show threadKrauerkingMay 30, 2024

They do this “I’m taking the high road” after saying incredibly rude and directly insulting things and responds as if the upset people are wrong.

I truly don’t know if they are confused why their tactic isn’t working or is just a very deeply seated self absorbed individual, and thinks of themselves as truly the only person that can be correct with zero nuance.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 31, 2024
Honestly I should’ve known better than to take their bait. I should’ve blocked them the moment they showed up.
Show threadgandalf_der_12teMay 30, 2024

tbh if you’re worried about fiat currency, you shouldn’t be investing in crypto currency (which is even more volatile imo) but instead in real, physical assets (such as food and housing).

Then again, i believe that the big problems can only be solved by repairing the society as a whole. Investing in your own wealth, imo, isn’t worth it. But your choice is yours.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024

Almost nobody who has ever purchased bitcoin and held onto it until now has lost anything*. This is not the case for ANY fiat currency on earth. There is a very good reason that so many people are flocking to it as a store of value. Holding value in real estate is a good idea, but most food loses its value even faster than the worst fiat currencies.

*The exception here is a small handful that happened to have purchased only in the last few weeks, and they have only lost about 1% of their value.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024

and held onto it until now

That part of your sentence is doing a lot of heavy lifting.

Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
Not that heavy - this is much more than can be said of any fiat currency. Especially the ones that are in rapid collapse compared to the main players, like USD or EUR. A currency that can hold value is the difference of being able to feed your family or not for a lot of people.
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
Oh it’s you. Nevermind.
Show threadAIhasUseMay 30, 2024
Thanks! You too!
Show threadTurunMay 30, 2024

Crypto is basically cash for online transactions.

Just how in the real world you’re shit outta luck if you lose your wallet. Or if you give someone money, but they laugh you in the face you can either cut your losses or try your luck in a fist fight. It’s the same with crypto.

With banks you have a separate authority that can handle all these cases, which is desirable in 99% of all transactions.

Unfortunately it’s volatile af, and the most popular crypto currency (Bitcoin)has untenable transaction costs and transaction limitations (10 transactions per second, globally - what a stupid design decision)

Show threadBlushedPotatoPlayersMay 30, 2024
As far as I know there would be, it’s just that nobody is using them that way
Show threadmanuallybreathingMay 30, 2024
Yeah! Accelerating societal collapse!
Show threadpaf0May 30, 2024
To be fair, crypto will never stand a chance against fiat as a means for payments because governments ensure that it’s complicated to tax. However, the underlying blockchain technology remains very interesting to me as a means of getting around middlemen companies.
Show threadmasterspaceMay 30, 2024

“aI AnD cRyPtO aRe ThE sAmE bRo”

You know that your take that they both must suck cause tech bros gets hyped about them, is literally just as shallow, surface level, and uninformed as most tech bros?

Like yeah man, tech hype cycles suck. But you know what else was once a tech hype cycle? Computers, the internet, smartphones. Sometimes they are legitimate, sometimes not.

AI is solving an entirely new class of problem that computers have been literally unable to solve for their entire existence. Crypto was solving the problem of making a database without a single admin. One of those is a lot more important and foundational than the other.

On top of that, crypto algorithms are fundamentally based on “proof of work”, i.e. literally wasting more energy than other miners in the network is a fundamental part of how their algorithm functions. Meaning that with crypto there is basically no value prop to society and it inherently tries to waste energy, neither is the case for AI.

Plus guess how much energy everyone streaming 4K video would take if we were all doing it on CPUs and unoptimized GPUs?

Orders of magnitude more power than every AI model put together.

But guess what? Instead we invented 4k decoding chips that are optimized to redner 4k signals at the hardware level so that they don’t use much power, and now every $30 fire stick can decode a 4k signal with basically no cost or energy usage.

That’s also where we’re at with the first Neural Processing Units only just hitting the market now.

Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024
I did not say AI and crypto are the same. I said the advocates are the same.
Show threadmasterspaceMay 30, 2024
Sure, uninformed tech hypebois suck in the same way, but the arguments around crypto and AI, especially around energy usage, are fundamentally not the same.
Show threadbolexforsoupMay 30, 2024

You keep responding to a thing I didn’t say.

But I will say now that both are very energy intensive/resource draining and the refusal to have a serious conversation about it - as spearheaded by tech bros/AI evangelists like I’ve described - is incredibly frustrating and makes people like me look down on the entire endeavor as a result.

Intellectually I know there are “responsible” developers and tools being made. But the loudest and most funded are not those people. And we need to consider the impact they have. This includes resource usage.

Show threadmasterspaceMay 30, 2024

Someone posted a shitty article about AI and power usage, someone pointed out that literally every industry uses a ton of power but AI gets clicks, you said AI and Crypto bros are the same.

If you don’t mean to imply that the counter arguments around AI and Crypto in terms of energy use are the same then write better given the context of the conversation.

And posting another shitty article that just talks about power usage going up across literally all types of industry, including just normal data centers and manufacturing plants, and then vaguely talking about chatGPTs power usage compared to Google search to try and make it sound like those things are connected, is not having a serious discussion about it.

Its skimming a clickbait headline and thinking it’s fact.