78/ Phang:
BLANCHE: Based on your recollection did you initiate more calls or did Mr. Costello? COHEN: to the best of my recollection, “I believe Mr. Costello reached out more to me”
BLANCHE: Those nine hours of calls that you had, how many times did you meet in person? COHEN: once or twice I believe
79/ Phang:
BLANCHE: You understood those were privileged conversations? COHEN: yes sir, in anticipation of potential representation
BLANCHE: The fact that you did not sign an engagement letter did not mean those calls and meetings were not privileged? COHEN: correct
80/ Phang:
EXHIBIT B1013 JUNE 14th email at 11:44am EMAIL FROM COHEN TO COSTELLO "Trump’s campaign to discredit Michael Cohen is already underway”... "Since we are sharing this morning…they are again on a bad path"
BLANCHE: You were talking about Trump and his team trying to discredit you? COHEN: Correct
BLANCHE: You decided to cooperate shortly thereafter? COHEN: correct
81/ Phang:
BLANCHE: in the time you spoke with Costello to now, there was a change in whether trump org was paying for lawyers? COHEN: correct BLANCHE: what happened that caused you to write to Costello? COHEN: There were significant invoices being sent to Trump Org for payment and payment was not being paid in accordance with the invoices
BLANCHE: you wanted Costello in June 2018 to communicate to Giuliani that nonpayment was becoming an issue? COHEN: Yes sir
82/ Phang:
BLANCHE: you never signed engagement letter and never paid bc you didn’t sign an engagement letter? COHEN: Correct
Blanche now runs Cohen through the amount of money he has made in 2018 until now, from his books, podcasts, etc.
83/Maddow:
just before a ten minute morning break, trump defense counsel todd blanche lets the world know that there is a proposed TV show called "The Fixer" based on Cohen's life... that has not yet been picked up. (call now! operators standing by!)
84/ All caught up! Recess over.
Klasfeld:
Blanche resumes
Q: How long have you been working with the gentleman you described to pitch this show?
A: Approx 3 mos.
Cohen says the pitches happened after it was shot 7-8 months ago.
👉🏼Cohen confirms that he's considering running for Congress, agreeing it's partly because of his name recognition.
"My name recognition is because of the journey I've been on. Is it affiliated with Mr. Trump? Yes." But it's not because of Mr. Trump, he insists.
85/ Klasfeld:
Blanche notes that his journey has included near-daily attacks on Trump.
McB:
Back to Cohen's role as personal attorney to Trump:
You Trump trusted you? Yes. His family trusted you? Yes. His wife trusted you? Yes.
Part of your job was to give him counsel and discuss legal issues with Trump?
But Hoffinger asks to approach—sidebar.
86/ McB:
When did you view your attorney-client relationship w/ Trump as ending?
Objection—sustained.
Now some math from Blanche: Going back to the $420k you were paid, Blanche restarts, the "Stormy Daniels payment" was $130k and the $20k to RedFinch adds up to $150k, and the remainder was grossed up + the bonus.
You didn't claim that $35k on your taxes—objection, sustained.
87/ FYI, via Pagliery:
Here's Trump's full entourage, per his campaign:
- S Carolina AG Alan Wilson
- Reps. Eric Burlison, Rep. Andrew Clyde, Rep. Mary Miller, Rep. Keith Self
- John Coale (America First Policy Instit & Greta Van Susteren's husband)
- MO AG candidate Will Scharf
- real estate investor Steve Witkoff
- disgraced former NYPD chief Bernie Kerik
- Kash Patel, national security lawyer who promises a new Trump administration would jail journalists
- Ga state politician Vernon Jones
88/ Maddow:
Trump defense counsel Todd Blanche attempts to ask Michael Cohen about whether he paid taxes on the 35k/month payments he received from the Trump org to reimburse him for the hush money, etc.
Prosecution objects -- sustained.
Blanche asks to approach the bench. Bench conference.
89/ McB:
We resume discussing the exorbitant amounts of money Cohen made during much of the past decade, 👉🏼as an underpaid, overworked press corps has to report it.
90/ McB:
Q: If Trump is convicted that would benefit you personally, financially?
A: No sir.
Q: Then what is your financial interest in this case?
His personal interest, Cohen clarifies, is that he talks about the case on his podcast and TikTok.
91/ McB:
Blanche asks again: would you financially benefit if Trump is convicted?
👉🏼"It's better if he's not, for me, because it gives me more to talk about in the future," Cohen says unironically, getting a respectable laugh from the press.👈🏼
92/ NOTE: ANY TYPOS OR MISTAKES ARE THEIRS, NOT MINE. I WON'T CORRECT, THAT'S UP TO THEM, AND I ADD CORRECTIONS WHEN THEY MAKE THEM.
McB:
Blanche asks: Isn't it true that you're willing to lie under oath if it affects you personally? and mentions that Blanche testified to that previously. But Hoffinger objects—sustained.
You would lie under oath out of loyalty, correct?
Objection again—sustained again.
93/ Pagliery:
👉🏼Blanche's cross ends with something of a dud, setting up a punchline and then... not delivering.
Blanche: When you lied to congress, you said you lied out of loyalty correct?
Cohen: Yes sir.
Blanche: It's true that you will lie out of loyalty, correct?
Cohen: Yes sir.
94/ Phang:
BLANCHE: Revenge is a dish best served cold? COHEN: Best served cold
BLANCHE: You meant it when you said it then and when you said it now? COHEN: yes sir
BLANCHE: This trial affects your personal life? COHEN: yes sir
BLANCHE: you also have said to this jury but i want to make sure I understand, that you would lie under oath out of loyalty?
OBJECTION SUSTAINED
95/ Phang:
BLANCHE: when you lied to congress, you said you were lying out of loyalty, correct? COHEN: Correct
BLANCHE: it’s true that you will lie out of loyalty, correct? COHEN: Yes sir
BLANCHE: Your testimony remains that notwithstanding everything you said over the years, you have a specific recollection on the phone with then-candidate Donald Trump about the Stormy Daniels payment? COHEN: yes sir, no doubt
No further questions from Blanche. Michael Cohen’s cross is over.
96/ Maddow:
BLANCHE: do you have a financial interest in the outcome of this case.
COHEN: yes
BLANCHE: because if trump is convicted, then that will benefit you financially?
COHEN: no.
BLANCHE: then what is your financial interest? ... 1/2
97/ Maddow:
COHEN: i make money by speaking about it, but whether trump is innocent or guilty is not going to affect whether i speak about it or not.
BLANCHE: (heated) the question is whether a CONVICTION benefits you.
COHEN: (firmly and loudly) the answer is no. (more quietly) if he's not, it gives me more to talk about in the future. (audible reaction in the courtroom).
2/2
98/ Klasfeld:
Prosecutor Susan Hoffinger begins redirect, by having Cohen clean up his answer about whether he testified falsely in Congress in 2019.
During cross, Cohen said he did, but the year he lied to Congress was 2017, he says now.
99/ McB:
Hoffinger begins redirect.
She starts with Blanche's question about whether Cohen testified falsely in Congress in 2019—did you testify truthfully in Congress in 2019? (Yes, ma'am, it was 2017 when he lied, his initial answer was a mistake.)
100/ McB:
Another clarification: defense asked whether Cohen discussed other matters with Trump on 10/26/16, in addition to the Daniels issue. He didn't have a "specific" recollection of other matters, but he does remember the Daniels matter bc it was important to him (yes ma'am.)
101/ McB:
Blanche objects—overruled.
Next, about how busy Cohen was in Oct 2016.
Weren't you busy all the time, not just then? Correct.
Were you too busy to finalize the payment? Were you too busy to get Trump's approval to make that payoff? No and no, ma'am.
102/ McB:
Q: Why wasn't there a retainer?
A: There was no legal work I was to be paid for, there was no representation agreement.
Q: Did the reimbursement have anything to do with a retainer agreement?
A:No ma'am.
103/ Just throwing this in here, via Acyn::
It is decidedly not cold.
Quote
Trump: I was supposed to be in a different state this morning and the judge actually decided to call it early…. I’m not allowed to have anything to do with politics because I’m sitting in a very freezing cold courtroom. It’s very unfair
104/ McB:
Did the $420k reimbursement payments have anything to do with legal work you did for Trump or his family? (No ma'am.)
Now to the consulting agreements: did you ever tell Trump that you'd work for only him? Objection—overruled.
No ma'am, Cohen says.
105/ Adding this from Phang for clarity:
HOFFINGER: did you ever send weisselberg a retainer agreement? COHEN: No, ma’am, there was no legal work to do or representation to send to them
106/ McB:
Back to RedFinch, we get more info on why Cohen hired them: a CNBC poll regarding the most famous businessman "in like the last century"—at the beginning of this poll he was polling toward the "very very bottom." Through the acquisition of IP addresses, RedFrinch said they 👉🏼create an algorithm to raise Trump in the polls.
107/ McB, more:
Trump wanted to end up as number 1, but Cohen and RedFinch thought that would be too suspicious, so they settled on Top 10.
👉🏼Kind of like when you're cheating on a test, everyone knows to flub some it to make it believable.
108/ Maddow:
The prosecution has started its redirect examination of cohen. it is fast paced and punchy. hoffinger moving cohen quickly through...
-- the $420k was not for legal services
-- cohen spoke with trump about the stormy scheme in october 2016
-- payments to redfinch for artificially boosting trump in a "famous business people" online poll at CNBC
Ongoing. Jury's heads are all up, watching Cohen closely.
109/ McB:
CNBC canceled the poll anyway, so Trump didn't want to pay RedFinch because he didn't feel he got the benefit of what the funds were supposed to go to despite achieving #9 in the poll thanks to RedFinch.
110/ Klasfeld:
The prosecutor asks Cohen about stealing the difference on the RedFinch expense in his Trump Org reimbursement.
"Why did you take that extra $30[,000]?" Hoffinger asks.
Cohen says he was angry about his bonus being cut and it was "almost like self-help."
111/ McB:
"I was angered because of the reduction of the bonus," Cohen says, who said keeping that extra cash was "almost like self help." Though he admits it was wrongful.
112/ McB:
Hoffinger asks Cohen about the 2/8/18 letter, which Cohen says omitted Trump's involvement and was intentionally misleading.
113/ Klasfeld:
Analysis
In one of the many paradoxes of the trial, Michael Cohen's admission, under oath, that he stole $30,000 from the Trump Org may be damaging to the defense.
It was a falsely claimed reimbursement, and Team Trump's position is that the money wasn't a reimbursement. In fact, with grossing up, Cohen acknowledged that he stole significantly more than $30,000 from the Trump Org.
114/ Klasfeld, more:
But Trump's lead lawyer Todd Blanche spent a significant amount of his cross suggesting the money was all for legal work—and said that explicitly in his opening. To be clear:
Cohen admitting that he stole from his employer hurts his credibility — but it also is entirely inconsistent with the theory of Trump's defense about what the money was and how Cohen got it.
115/ Sidebar: Via Acyn:
For some reason, Fox chose not to air any video of Donald Trump’s surrogates speaking outside of his criminal trial
116/ Sidebar via Ron Filipkowski re Trump toadies' press gaggle today:
We were ready for this nonsense today. No peace for the propaganda shows from now on.
Quote
Jacqueline Sweet:
Hard to hear anyone speaking over the hecklers and cowbells
117/ McB:
As we wait for sidebar to end, the RedFinch figure keeps changing.
Exact figure aside, it seems that if your boss is known for not paying his bills, everyone under him will get what they can while the getting is good. Tone at the top kinda thing.
Laffy
caseyjonesed