LinkerbaanMay 17, 2024

Israel troops continue posting abuse footage despite pledge to act

https://lemmy.world/post/15509032

Israel troops continue posting abuse footage despite pledge to act - Lemmy.World

The BBC has analysed 45 photos and videos, which include those of detainees draped in Israeli flags. International law says detainees must not be exposed to unnecessary humiliation or public curiosity, yet human rights experts say the posting of detention footage does just that. Despite the BBC’s previous reporting on Israeli soldiers’ social media misconduct, and the military’s subsequent promise to act on our findings, a former Israeli soldier, Ori Givati, says he is far from shocked to hear that this activity is continuing. During our earlier investigation, we noticed - and began looking into - a similar pattern of behaviour in the West Bank, which has experienced a spike in violence over the same period.

Show threadAndy

I had a recent conversation on Mastodon with an Israeli American who was complaining about the rampant increase in antisemitism he’s experienced, and then the devastation and sense of abandonment he and other Israelis feel… and it was tragic.

It’s a country that has been traumatized, but is also now addicted to unhealthy coping strategies. A lot of these people feel constantly victimized, and its a legitimate feeling, but they don’t seem aware of the degree to which they’ve formed a society designed to maintain a permission structure for constant fear and hate.

I feel so badly for these people. But unfortunately, the situation demands that we stop them from continuing this atrocity.

May 17, 2024 at 7:28pmWeb
Show threadLinkerbaanMay 17, 2024

Israelis are truly worlds biggest crybullies. Throwing a pity party while committing Genocide.

Israel has ethnically cleansed Palestinians at every opportunity. Their terrorist state needs to be dismantled.

Show threadAndyMay 17, 2024

It’s true, but it doesn’t mean I can’t feel badly for these people too.

My empathy is not a finite resource.

Show threadspirinolasMay 18, 2024
It depends. Do they feel as bad about Palestinians. If not, fuck them, they are not people.
Show threadAndyMay 19, 2024

I think it’s fucked up when people create ideological conditions for personhood. The whole point of fundamental human rights is that we afford them to everyone. It’s not like it’s an accident that we give them to the very worst people. That’s kind of the core concept.

If you’re opposed to the concept of universal human rights, I don’t love it, but I can accept that. I think that’s probably a majority opinion, honestly. But I just feel like whenever someone says that a group of people “aren’t people”, I think we should make sure we’re not tip-toeing around that. It should be out on the table.

Show threadspirinolasMay 19, 2024

Oh, I recognize their legal human rights. I just don’t morally consider them human when they act…inhuman.

Have you talled with your Palestinian friends too and asked them how they feel? Or have they been offline lately, Harold?

Show threadSaltySalamanderMay 18, 2024
You already posted this comment, Harold.
Show threadAndyMay 19, 2024
Can you explain this reference? Everyone keeps mentioning a Harold, and I see that it’s getting upvoted a lot, so I think I’m the only one who doesn’t know what this means.
Show threadSaltySalamanderMay 22, 2024
Pretty sure this is explanation enough
Show threadAndyMay 23, 2024

That’s interesting.

I can see why you’d think we’re the same person, and why any attempt to prove we’re not is going to looks wildly suspicious, but if it helps, here is the conversation I was referencing: aleph.land/@andrewrgross/112452794853158836

You can check the time, it’s all real. I had that conversation on May 16th, and then commented here on the 17th.

My account on Mastodon and my account here are both months and months old, while Harold appears to have made their account around the time that they posted that comment. I’m not sure what their motivation was, but they posted a few things and got banned from their server.

Anyway, that’s not me. I don’t think it’s a coincidence. I think their comment looks like an inarticulate imitation of mine.

It’s pretty weird, and I appreciate you sharing the screen shot. Make of it all what you will.

andy gross (@[email protected])

@[email protected] @[email protected] @[email protected] I don't think most people -- Jews especially -- who are involved in the demonstrations against genocide are unconcerned about threats of violence against Jews. My primary motivation is serving justice. But trying to preserve for my son the social empathy for Jews that I was blessed to grow up in is also a big part of my motivation. It's never too late to join us, my brother. If you want safety us, build safety for all. That's all that has ever worked. #freegaza #bringthemhomenow

Aleph
Show threadDreweliteMay 18, 2024
Someone trying to actually understand the nuances of someone they disagree with? Online? Now I’ve seen everything.
Show threadAndyMay 18, 2024

You know, part of it is that I grew up drinking in the same propaganda. I GET the arguments.

In one sense, a lot has already ended. I think a lot of people in Israel – I’m thinking primarily of those we used to think of as non-radical – are in grief. Not just over Oct. 7, but because they know subconsciously that the good times are over. They were living in a fantasy, and now comes a rude awakening.

Either they accept a far right fascist police state or they give up the dream of unchallenged dominion over what they believe is their birthright. Either way, their dream of a progressive, modern, fully-Jewish state over the whole region was never possible because it required ignoring the reality of millions of unwanted people, and now they’re crashing into the hard realization that the dream is dead. I think it’s possible for that to be replaced with a new dream that includes equal rights for non-Jews, but that’s still going to be a painful process that millions of people will have to be dragged into.

And now I have to witness both the pain of people I related to in some way, and also the reminder of what we’re all capable of. These people are tying their brains in knots to perpetuate generational horrors against a subjugated group, like a kid who escaped a childhood of abuse only to grow up and perpetuate the same thing on their kids. And not only that, I’m not naive enough to think I wouldn’t be capable of it too. I come from a different circumstance, but if I’d been born there? I’d probably be on board. No one wants to believe this, but most likely, so would you. So would most of us.

Add to all this that I’m also clear-eyed that there are plenty of people who do not have the mental complexity to protect one group of people without dehumanizing their oppressors. I don’t really blame them, but I can see that in their heart, they don’t really mind mass slaughter, they just have different preferences for who should be on the receiving end. Would they care if it was me? Or my kid? I pray I never need to find out. My plan is to just keep trying to make a world where everyone is safe and hope it works out.

It’s terrible to watch on so, so, SO many levels.

Show threadDreweliteMay 18, 2024

Whoa, it’s like because you fully understood their position rather than analyzing it from a hostile point of view, you’re capable of basic compassion and humility for the incredibly painful situation that all the people of the middle east face everyday.

But seriously, it’s pretty refreshing to hear someone understand rather than just try and push a narrative and justify their take.