lemmyreader

Slack is now using all content, including DMs, to train LLMs

https://lemmy.ml/post/15741611

Slack is now using all content, including DMs, to train LLMs - Lemmy

cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/15741608 [https://lemmy.ml/post/15741608] > > They offer a thing they’re calling an “opt-out.” > > > > The opt-out (a) is only available to companies who are slack customers, not end users, and (b) doesn’t actually opt-out. > > > > When a company account holder tries to opt-out, Slack says their data will still be used to train LLMs, but the results won’t be shared with other companies. > > > > LOL no. That’s not an opt-out. The way to opt-out is to stop using Slack. > > https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/trust/data-management/privacy-principles [https://slack.com/intl/en-gb/trust/data-management/privacy-principles]

May 17, 2024 at 12:27pmWeb
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
Is there a self hosted slack-like that has a mobile app
Show threadfar_university1990May 17, 2024
Is there a self hosted slack-like?
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
Is there self hosting?
Show threadsnooggumsMay 17, 2024
Is there self?
Show threadNumenorMay 17, 2024
David Hume!
Show threadm-p{3}May 17, 2024
Matrix?
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
Is there a decent client? Desktop and mobile?
Show threadthepaperpilotMay 17, 2024

For matrix specifically, I recommend fluffy chat on mobile and cinny for web/desktop. Most notably, they both support the not-yet-official spec on custom emojis and stickers, which I think is important for any slack-like.

For the server (since you want to self host), you'd probably want to do Synapse - it supports not being federated as well as SSO. Also it wasn't mentioned by mp3, but xmpp is another protocol that's used by many large companies for internal chat systems as well.

Show threadjqubedMay 17, 2024
Does IRC still exist? I remember laughing when I first saw Slack and its early competitors because people were excited about it and when I finally used it I realized it was basically just IRC with a nicer interface. I’m assuming these offer improvements like encryption?
Show threadjust another devMay 17, 2024
Nah, there’s tons of features that slack has over irc. To start with inline media (images, audio, video), but most importantly lots of out of the box external integrations and webhooks.
Show threadjqubedMay 17, 2024
Yeah, now there is, but I don’t think a lot of those features were in when I first used it over a decade ago. It became a lot more useful over the years.
Show threadKushanMay 17, 2024
It didn’t require using arcane commands just to sign up and log in. I love IRC and will always remember it fondly, but it wasn’t easy for a novice to use and that’s why things like slack and discord took off.
Show thread0x0May 17, 2024
Yes, IRC still exists… as does XMPP.
Show thread0x01May 17, 2024
Rocket chat I think checks those boxes
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
Subscription to self host? lol. Am I missing something?
Show threadPistcowMay 17, 2024
Your wallet?
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
I’ll pay a flat fee, but not a per user fee.
Show threadJajcusMay 17, 2024
Subscription to a software is not mutually exclusive with self-hosting. Developers deserve to earn money, especially those who do not rely on collecting data, showing ads and enshittification of their cloud platform.
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
I’ll pay a flat fee.
Show threadholycrapMay 17, 2024
I’m self hosting rocket and I never gave them a dime
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
I have 400 users though.
Show threadholycrapMay 17, 2024
Sounds like rocket won’t be a good fit for you then.
Show threadryguyflyguyMay 17, 2024
Zulip is pretty nice
Zulip — organized team chat

Zulip is an organized team chat app for distributed teams of all sizes.

Zulip
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024
Why are they charging?
Show threadessteeyouMay 17, 2024
So they don’t go out of business.
Show threadryguyflyguyMay 17, 2024
Unless you’re setting it up for a business, the free tier should be enough. They have options for both self-hosting and hosted versions
Show threadtsonfeirMay 17, 2024

It’s a business with 300 users, but only about 50 of them would even use it. The others DO need accounts for the one time per month they login. But with their pricing, and SSO plan, that’s $3000/m

What… the… fuck.

I am in the wrong business lol.

Show threadPossibly linuxMay 17, 2024
Maybe Matrix
Show threadgadgetroidMay 18, 2024
  • Nextcloud Talk
  • Mattermost
  • Matrix
Show threadBappityMay 17, 2024
fuck sake
Show threadGamers_MateMay 17, 2024
Instead of working on their platform to get discord users to jump ship they decide to go in the same direction.
Also pretty sure training LLMs after someone opts out is illegal?
Show threadSapphiria 🏳️‍⚧️ [she/her]May 17, 2024
Wait, discord is also doing this?
Show threadreimufumoMay 17, 2024
Not currently and publically at least. They’re feeding your messages into an LLM, x.com/DiscordPreviews/status/1790065494432608432 but that’s not as bad as training one with your messages
Discord Previews (@DiscordPreviews) on X

Discord has been using machine learning models to determine the gender and age group of some of its users since at least August 2022. The data can be found in the "activity/analytics/events-[...].json" file of some Discord data packages, though the exact requirements are unknown.

X (formerly Twitter)
Show threadFaceDeerMay 17, 2024

Also pretty sure training LLMs after someone opts out is illegal?

Why? There have been a couple of lawsuits launched in various jurisdictions claiming LLM training is copyright violation but IMO they're pretty weak and none of them have reached a conclusion. The "opting" status of the writer doesn't seem relevant if copyright doesn't apply in the first place.

Show threaddeweydecibelMay 17, 2024

but IMO they’re pretty weak

Well, thankfully, it’s not up to you.

Show threadFaceDeerMay 17, 2024
Nor is it up to you. But fact remains, it's not illegal until there are actually laws against it. The court cases that might determine whether current laws are against it are still ongoing.
Show threadGrimyMay 17, 2024

If copyrights apply, only you and stack own the data. You can opt out but 99% of users don’t. No users get any money. Google or Microsoft buys stack so only they can use the data. We only get subscription based AI, open source dies.

If copyrights don’t apply, everyone owns the data. The users still don’t get any money but they get free open source AI built off their work instead of closed source AI built off their work.

Having the website have copyright of the content in the context of AI training would be a fucking disaster.

Show threadNovaPrimeMay 17, 2024
  • It’s not illegal. 2. “Law” isn’t a real thing in an oligarchy, except insofar as it can be used by those with capital and resources to oppress and subjugate those they consider their lessors and to further perpetuate the system for self gain
    • Show threadConfusedPossumMay 17, 2024

    I use Slack at work everyday. I suppose this does feel off in some way but I'm not sure I'm the right amount of upset about this? I don't really mind if they use my data if it improves my user experience, as long as the platform doesn't reveal anything sensitive or personal in a way that can be traced back to me.

    Slack already does allow your admin to view all of your conversations, which is more alarming to me

    Show threadSeedyOneMay 17, 2024
    The problem is where you said “as long as” because we already know companies AND the AI itself can’t be trusted to not expose sensitive info. At absolute best, it’s another vector to be breached.
    Show threadConfusedPossumMay 17, 2024
    It's obvious when you say it like that. I don't like the idea of some prompt hacker looking at memes I sent to my coworker
    Show threadBlueshiftMay 18, 2024

    Slack already does allow your admin to view all of your conversations, which is more alarming to me

    I’m a slack admin for my company, and I can tell you that no: admins can’t read DMs or private channels they’re not a part of

    Show thread0x0May 17, 2024
    mattermost anyone?
    Mattermost | Collaboration Platform for Mission Critical Work

    Accelerate your mission critical workflow by integrating people, processes, tools and AI infrastructure on a resilient and adaptable platform.

    Mattermost.com
    Show threadPossibly linuxMay 17, 2024
    Its used by NASA and the US Air Force so security wise it probably is pretty solid.
    Show threadCroquetteMay 17, 2024

    An issue with mattermost is that some useful features are behind a paywall, like group calls.

    I’d go with nextcloud since all their features are included regardless of if you pay or not

    Show thread0x0May 17, 2024
    Ain’t everything [open-souce]](github.com/mattermost)?
    Mattermost

    Mattermost is a secure collaboration platform for connecting your teams, tools and processes to accelerate mission-critical work. - Mattermost

    GitHub
    Show threadCroquetteMay 17, 2024

    Open-source does not equal free. There is probably a way to circumvent their paywall, but on their website, self-hosted free version has a limit of 1-on-1 for calls.

    If you want a group call, you need to pay, even if you self-host.

    Show threadme_jumperMay 18, 2024
    Wait, which calls do you mean? We’re hosting or own free mattermost and I’ve never had that problem. We’re pretty happy with mattermost overall, but it’s also a small tech-savvy team.
    Show threadjust another devMay 17, 2024

    Customers own their own Customer Data.

    Okay, that’s good.

    Immediately after that:

    Slack […] will never identify any of our customers or individuals as the source of any of these improvements to any third party, other than to Slack’s affiliates or sub-processors.

    You’d hope the owner would get a say in that.

    Show threadstellargmiteMay 17, 2024
    So you sign up to confirm that your IP is yours, while simultaneously agreeing to sell it off , but the source will be anonymous other than to who it’s sold to or anyone else Slack decides they want to know. These tech contracts and TOS should just say “we will (try) not do bad, but you agree to let us do bad, and if bad happens its your fault”.
    Show threadUltravioletMay 17, 2024
    Remember when they renamed PMs to DMs and everyone who pointed out that they’re trying to remove the expectation of privacy was “paranoid”?
    Show threadCH3DD4R_G0B-L1NMay 17, 2024
    I don’t, but it sounds exactly like every other time this exact thing happens.
    Show threadVeraxusMay 17, 2024
    Well, that’s just great. Another reason to force everyone into the miserable, counterproductive dumpster fire that is MS Teams.
    Show threadlemmyreaderMay 17, 2024

    Is MS Teams the only viable alternative ?

    Mattermost | Collaboration Platform for Mission Critical Work

    Accelerate your mission critical workflow by integrating people, processes, tools and AI infrastructure on a resilient and adaptable platform.

    Mattermost.com
    Show threadVeraxusMay 17, 2024
    No, but it’s the only one that big corporations know/care about… primarily because of MS’s aggressive “look, it’s basically free and TOTALLY the same thing, we promise” marketing strategy.
    Show threadShialacMay 18, 2024
    At my old job we primarily used RocketChat, I miss it
    Show threadgadgetroidMay 18, 2024

    Also

    • Nextcloud Talk
    • Self-hosted Matrix server
    Show threadplz1May 17, 2024
    Teams is doing the same thing. I can’t go anywhere close to anything Microsoft without some Copilot I didn’t ask for getting jammed in.
    Show threadVeraxusMay 17, 2024
    The customer is never just a customer… even if you are paying. You are always the product now. Always.
    Show threadfluxc0May 17, 2024
    what a shitshow. when is this gonna be made illegal?