telegram_irl - Pawb.Social

https://soatok.blog/2024/05/14/its-time-for-furries-to-stop-using-telegram/ [https://soatok.blog/2024/05/14/its-time-for-furries-to-stop-using-telegram/] Edit: Oh yeah, DON’T USE SIGNAL. Use Matrix [https://matrix.org] instead, offers the benefits of signal without the drawbacks of lack of sync and phone number requirements and is decentralized. The fact that everyone is going gaga for signal as “the BEST messaging app” should be a big red flag in and of itself, because hype trains like this aren’t organic, just saying.

@[email protected] @[email protected] Mentioning because this is relevant to our instances since we’re currently using Telegram here, we may want to consider alternatives like Matrix, or even just a simple RSS Feed for updates.

Whatever we choose it probably would be best to eventually move on from Telegram, even if not immediately, as user experience on Telegram will likely continue to get worse in the future.

@crashdoom - Pawb.Social

Network Administrator for Pawb.Social, furry, and a programmer Mastodon: @[email protected] [https://furry.engineer/@crashdoom]

Second bit i missed: not actually against an rss feed. May bother crash about it and see if we can just embed an rss feed into the status page proper. Maybe try to make a simple system to simulcast announcements to two places at once if we need to.

Maybe rss for announcements, and an official matrix channel for discussion? We currently use reactions on the announcements to gauge how everyone is handling our responses.

Having the announcements simulcast in multiple places is probably a good idea since it makes it more redundant in case one service isn’t working properly.
One step ahead of the curve; I never started using it in the first place.
I don’t really use it either, but I thought it would be relevant to post here since the pawb.social network uses it to communicate outages, so it might be best for us to try to move away from that to something else, maybe something a bit more open.
I guess Telegram is better than Facebook Messenger but I’m not sure what else it had going for it.
Lax moderation policies allowing for many groups to do what they want without getting banned (for a while anyway).
I will literally never use signal until they change it so data is archivable in some form and syncable across devices. I won’t recommend people use it. I don’t care how secure it is. Security is important, but usability is where telegram has signal beat by miles. I’m not hiding nation state secrets. I’m horny posting and chatting with other weirdos that like to be animals on the internet.

Yeah I know this is a hot take but I don’t really like signal much either, but for me it’s mainly because it is a centralized protocol and they attempt to maintain exclusivity over it (Moxie used to go after third party clients because of this).

That’s why I feel matrix is a way better alternative. It still has the option of being secure with the E2E encryption and so long as you save your keys you can still retrieve older messages on other devices. It also has the ability to create public chats, same as Telegram, but with the addition of Spaces, which can group connected chats together (almost like a discord server, except you can also join each room individually).

Also matrix doesn’t require a phone number to sign up so it’s significantly better than Signal in that regard because signing up with email is much more convenient, and probably more secure than phone number sign-up since you can simply use temporary email services.

I’ve been using Signal for years, and I can definitely say it’s not “garbage”. I’m not telling anyone else what to use, but there are far worse options out there for sure.

That is true, there are definitely much worse messaging platforms out there.

I’m mainly calling out signal because in terms of private messaging platforms they are one of the only ones yes but they are also pretty bad due to their centralized dependence (and the fact that they insist on staying centralized) the fact that they are insanely and (most likely) artificially overhyped doesn’t help at all, and if people want to choose a better one they should choose one that isn’t going to end up having the same problems.

Obviously many signal fanboys would argue that it just wouldn’t happen, that signal could never enshittify but they fail to understand that centralized services can be fundamentally restructured in ways much harder than if not impossible with decentralized ones. Also the fact that companies, even non-profits can be influenced by money and even go public. Overhyped centralized bullshit is not the solution, and it never has been.

I generally agree with you. I haven’t seen Signal getting much hype outside Soatok mentioning it the other day, but I could see it as it’s something close to Telegram and people always try to go to whatever is the next closest thing. That said, Matrix isn’t without it’s issues either. While I also prefer decentralized, open source, software, (one of the main reasons I’m here,) my experience with Matrix and XMPP hasn’t been great. Largely because nearly no one I know uses them.

I haven’t seen it hyped as much recently (at least not outside of alt-right spaces) but I do remember a time when people wouldn’t shut up about signal.

Matrix certainly does have it’s issues, biggest one being that you can lose your encryption keys and with it message history, though it’s still much better than what you get with signal where you lose message history if you lose that device or lose your account if you lose your phone number (emails are more portable and permanent than phone numbers but you also don’t need the email to log in again, last time I used signal you do need your phone number to log in).

XMPP seems very glitchy and unreliable, I also wasn’t really able to find very good clients on Most modern platforms, but I may not have been looking hard enough. I also didn’t find many rooms of interest on XMPP so lack of people using it is definitely real, though I found no shortage of rooms on Matrix.

Using them to talk to people you know can be hard if people you don’t know don’t use them, I know Matrix does have bridges but I haven’t tried setting those up and I’m not sure how well they’d work.

What do you think about soatok’s very vocal opinions regarding matrix? It was at the end of the article. They linked a wall of text of opinions about how they don’t trust the developers of matrix to build a safe platform.

I’m impartial about both platforms, and the way I see it is that Signal would be great if it was decentralized, and Matrix would be great if it used a different type of protocol, even though Matrix does use a fork of a protocol that Signal uses.

I’m not sure what the difference of the protocols Matrix and signal use so I have to look into that in my own time to really find out why one is better than the other like soatok claims haha

Edits: Formatting

I think criticism of matrix as a platform and protocol is valid and can help build a better decentralized ecosystem. We need to address the flaws in order to make it better.

I still think Matrix is probably the best way moving forward since its only real alternative is XMPP, which yeah, better than nothing but not great. Also relying on and ultimately hyping centralized solutions is relying on one guy to not love money more than “the dream”, and his reputation, which always ends up happening at some point in the end (every one of us are susceptible to it, just keep adding 0s). FYI whatsapp used to be just like signal, E2EE zero knowledge, over-hyped privacy messaging app, then they sold it to Facebook who backdoored it and made that not true anymore.

Pushing for a service that ultimately can and very likely will have the same fate, especially when this app is overhyped too just feels irresponsible at least in my opinion, especially since centralized messengers are the hardest to break away from.

I’m impartial about both platforms, and the way I see it is that Signal would be great if it was decentralized, and Matrix would be great if it used a different type of protocol, even though Matrix does use a fork of a protocol that Signal uses.

I think if signal were decentralized it would be awesome and possibly even better than signal in some ways, I also wouldn’t really have any issues with it being given as an alternative to Matrix or XMPP, since it wouldn’t have the same deep issues it has now. Though it isn’t and their developers’ attitude towards decentralization shows that it probably won’t be (someone could fork the open source parts and make it so but it wouldn’t be signal, that would be something else).

I’m not sure what the difference of the protocols Matrix and signal use so I have to look into that in my own time to really find out why one is better than the other like soatok claims haha

I’m not really sure either, I’ve heard that they use similar protocols underneath but I’ve also heard from others that they are drastically different. So hard to say.

@Draconic_NEO @furry_irl

As a matrix user, the same can be said about matrix. The experience is mediocre at best and i have found several security issues in several clients and the spec that i found by mildly poking at it and looking at the spec. None of them have been fixed yet.

Yes Signal has issues, but it works well and in what it does is really private and really secure. Matrix is slow, not private and pretty messy