inb4_FoundTheVeganEither ya understand why most women pick the đ» or you are the đ».
neidu2This one flew over mye head. Could someone please cue me in on what this meme is referencing?
There was a woman (IIRC a feminist) who posted a rage bait question of âwomen if you had to choose to be in the woods with a bear or a strange man, what would you choose?â (Paraphrasing)
Then got a bunch of hate mail from men and used that to exclaim that the hate mail was the exact reason women would choose a bear over a man in the woods.
a feminist who posted a rage bait question
You should read the link, because youâre making a lot of incorrect assumptions. It wasnât a rage bait at all, but a response to video of taunting a bear in the woods about how taunting a man would be more dangerous.
And then it turned in to a bunch of different people discussing variations of the scenario.
This whole conversation is the equivalent to stranger danger of the 80s, it is shocking how far the publics social awareness is. The truth of the matter is that some random man isnât a bigger threat to you than a random bear, when looking at statistics and physical threat to women itâs domestic violence.
This bear shit is some whack ass 4th wave feminism that completely lacks any kind of internal self criticism. The public conversation surrounding it provides no purpose than to feed into incel radicalization of young men feeling the strains of alienation under capitalism.
Did⊠did you miss the #metoo movement?
Where like 60% of women get harassed regularly, and 50 % felt unsafe walking home in public, due to men. Or 79% of women felt unsafe while exercising, due to men. And 88% of travelling women felt unsafe, due to men.
Bears are hungry, scared, have cubs to protect, or mostly want to be left alone. They wonât stalk you, leer at you, catcall or grope you.
You sir, are the one lacking self reflection.
bloopernovaNo, no, no. Donât you realize? Men are the real victims here! Eyeroll to end all eyerolls
Where like 60% of women get harassed regularly
Thatâs not what the linked study says: In June 2021, the Opinions and Lifestyle Survey (OPN) showed that 28% of women and 16% of men had experienced at least one form of harassment in the previous 12 months. Of adults aged 16 to 34 years, 58% of women had experienced harassment, compared with 24% of men (Figure 4).
And donât get me wrong, I am not here to justify harassment of anyone, but youâre grossly misrepresenting the study right now. Perceptions are absolutely influenced by experience of harassment but the actual threat to a woman is not random men on the street, itâs a man that has power over her or within her circle of trust. That could be a boss, a husband or relative.
However that reality is what is shaping public perception, I would ask you why do you think that is? Itâs a very important part of this bear conversation that is completely lost on everyone.
From the study summary:
Three out of five women aged 16 to 34 years experienced at least one form of harassment in the previous 12 months
Three out of five is 60%.
I donât want to get in the weeds here, at least once in the last 12 months is not regularly, thatâs my point on your misrepentation.
Again when talking about actual threats to women it is not strangers but men already in their circle, yet that is not what the bear discussion revolves around.
Please answer: Why do you think the actual threat doesnât shape public consciousness the same way perceived threats do?
I understand that this information is against your internal narrative, but a quick look at data for 2021 shows:
One in two women and one in five men felt unsafe walking alone after dark in a busy public place.
And data from 2022 shows 45% for the same measure.
As for harassment:
2022 - 55% of women 16-34 felt harassed
2021 - Three out of five, 60% felt harassed during the year.
Twice as many women reported being harassed as men, and several reported changing their behaviour because of harassment.
This is also echoed in international studies over multiple cultures. Women are much more often harassed than men, almost exclusively by men, and have more limited freedoms, expressions and rights than men.
This is not controversial, it is well established in study after study, there is an actual right answer to this, and itâs not the one youâre proposing.
How is it that you keep ignoring data when faced with it, and instead of presenting supportive data resort to arguing feelings and whataboutisms?
You misunderstand me if you feel I am arguing against the data.
I already knew women get harassed more than men, but I assumed there was much more of a discrepancy than âtwiceâ. That means that 1/3 harassment incidents occur to men. Which is wildly different from what I assumed. I thought it was going to be like 90%+ women.
Thanks for the data
Ah, well I apologize for not recognizing the original source. I was going off memory from where I saw the tweet of the question. I hadnât realized it was from a response video. Though I still feel it was made to get a rise from people
"Feminist"
Unsure what that quote is supposed to imply. Either she does associate herself with the movement or she does not. I donât know the person or follow any of their social stuff. So if she does not, in fact, self associate with that group than I misremembered and Iâm wrong. If she does than she is.
Feminism is very clearly defined in what it is and does. Posting divisive man hating rage bait is not part of it. Just calling yourself something does not make yourself something.
Sure does, but as far as Iâm aware, subscription to the ideology is the only bar to entry. Just because someone uses distasteful methods does not mean they do not subscribe to the ideology. So in this case, I would argue that stating it does make it.
What are you talking about? Feminism is about equality. How does this method achieve equality?
Thatâs a good question for the person who weâre talking about. I canât speak on behalf of their reasoning but they seem to feel justified in it, somehow.
Most extremists feel justified in whatever destructive shit they're doing.
Thatâs exactly correct, and they still associate themselves with whatever group. They usually do believe their methods justify the means and that allows them to subscribe to an ideology while doing things an outside perspective might consider against that ideology.
So if subscribing to the ideology is the only bar to entry, feel free to consider her an extremest or the like, but thatâd make her a feminist still, no?
No, since they're actively opposing the point of feminism. Doing the opposite to feminism and then calling yourself a feminist, does not make you a feminist.
Well thereâs no authority on what makes or does not make a feminist and they seem to believe they hold that ideology and that the ends justify the means.
At this point I feel you are hard set on refusing to accept that they and others may consider them as such. Youâve every right to not accept it too, though that makes no difference to anyone either way. Iâve no real interest in pedantics over this as I was originally just trying to provide context for someone.
With that, enjoy your day and letâs move on.
Oh no youâre not. I edited it in immediately after I saw your comment but then got busy irl and didnât have time to reply until now.
Thanks for doing so anyhow. Iâd only been seeing memes, and while I got the gist, I appreciate the full explanation.
Jo MiranI know a few bears that you definitely want with you if you are lost in the woods.
Semi-Hemi-DemigodOf course I know the bear, he's me
GormadtIâm a dude and an avid hiker in the PNW, Iâve also had encounters with over a dozen bears over the last 5 years.
Iâd prefer to encounter a bear when by myself in the woods.
Bears are predictable.
EdibleFriendYep⊠Dude here who 100% would pick the bear and pick the bear for the women that are close to me in my life. The vast majority of bears just want to be left the fuck alone.
Iâm a bear? :O
YES BB
This is so dumb. How many encounters with men have you had? Youâre telling me as such an avid hiker, youâve had more encounters with bears than with other men also hiking?
Youâre telling me that people are out there hiking and no one is passing by other men hiking? And if they are, they are terrified each time a dude walks past them?
And for everyone out there. Over 80% of sexual assaults are committed by people known to the victim, not strangers. So a woman is more likely to get assaulted by the dude she takes with her while hiking than with some strange man that she might meet during the hike.
So this whole bear thing just shows how people have no idea about reality. Itâs like the stereotype that pedophiles are these dudes that look weird and creepy, when in fact, the pedophile probably looks just like a normal person and again is most likely someone that knows the victim, not some weird guy in a minivan with candy and ice cream.
GiganIâve heard some pretty gruesome tales of bear attacks. I think these women are underestimating how bad being mauled by a bear could be.
As opposed to being chopped up into little pieces by a man
Itâs not a statement on reality, but a statement on perception. One I agree with as a guy. I donât really know how to deal with a bear, but if the hypothetical involves any indication of oddness, I think Iâd rather risk walking away from a bear than finding out if thereâs a crazy looking for their next victim.
Sure, the person has more positive possible outcomes, but if my intention is to stay alone, why go through the risk? Hell, my antisocial ass would probably start acting weirder to try and scare them!
And youâre WILDLY underestimating the rates of bear attacks versus rape, murder and assault.
One out of six women will experience some sort of sexual assault, versus about 40 bear attacks per year. A bear is predictable, it will mostly just go about its business, but a man that knows we are alone in the woods?
Right?! You hear tales of bear attacks because they are so rare, not because they are so frequent.
Youâre an idiot. Iâve encountered men in the woods and guess what happened? They waved and said hi. If I ever saw a bear in the woods Iâd shit my pants.
Touch a nerve, pussy? Iâve seen plenty of bears in the woods.
Youâve seen plenty of bears in the woods but never another man?
Those assaults arenât from strangers is the piece of information omitted, itâs men in their family or inner circle abusing power or taking advantage of trust. The perception that all men are a threat is seriously damaging our youth and in fact creating a larger issue as it radicalizes them into ideologies that donât value others as a reactionary turn to the way they feel treated.
This shit is bad and you should feel bad for propagating it.
Not saying youâre wrong, but the conditional probability P(Mauled by bear | encountered bear) is way higher than the total probability P(Mauled by bear), and an argument of this kind should be based on the conditional probability.
Are those one out of six women having the same amount of contact with wild bears than they have with men? Otherwise you are just proving that you cannot read statistics, or rather you can but chose to push an agenda - like a predator.
Thinking that a random man inherently has to be a predator, so you disregard the animal that we know for a fact is a predator, is nothing but irrational. But feel free to prove us all wrong and go try to talk to some bears instead of men and we will see how long it will take for things to go south. I'd say the average number of men you've talked to in your lives, good or bad, are a good start to work through for your bear dates. After that we'll at least have some very rough comparable data to compare.
You clearly have no idea how to interpret or compare these statistics.
The average woman will encounter tens of thousands of men each year. The average woman will encounter near-zero bears.
Apples to oranges unless you want to fill the population with as many bears are there are men and see which one attacks more people.
Iâve heard some pretty gruesome tales of domestic violence. I think these women are underestimating how bad being mauled by a man could be.
Men on Reddit are still salty days later about women choosing to be with a bear rather than a random man in the forest.
ZeroCoolUnfortunately, itâs not hard to find them on lemmy too.
Itâs just weird that not even 5 years after BLM that weâre back to saying that weâd prefer to be with literal animals than be around black men
you are the only person who came here with the agenda of trying to spin this as an anti-black issue. you failed spectacularly. this was never a race issue and you knew that coming in.
When a sex is demonized and dehumanized, eventually acts of ârighteousâ violence will ensue.
And what do you think the race and national origin will be of the majority of those victims?
Holy shit look at those mental gymnastics
All men have a race and a national origin. When we dehumanize men and say that a vicious animal is safer than them, we are normalizing dehumanization and violence. Which will eventually lead to violence against men who are disproportionately black, brown, Muslim, and foreign born.
Which is partially why black men are murdered at such high rates - they arenât seen as âpeopleâ, theyâre seen as superpredators. And is also why it is easy to turn away refugees at the border - because theyâre all soldiers in a migrant caravan coming to kill us. And is why Israel can claim they killed a dangerous Hamas terrorist when, in reality, all they did was murder a 12 year old boy.
When men are seen as inherently harmful and women are seen as inherently harmless, dehumanization and prejudicial violence occurs. This meme was astroturfed by right wing organizations to help accomplish that goal. We should reject it.
Femcels complaining about incels. You people are the spiderman meme.
Totally, the whole thing is inflammatory hyperbole.
I get the point that while not all menâą, enough men exhibit predatory behaviour to the extent that a decently large percentage of women fear the average man more than the average bear.
But this is just deliberately sowing division, and more shows how little both sides know about both bear behaviour and crime statistics
enough men exhibit predatory behaviour to the extent that a decently large percentage of women fear the average man more than the average bear.
Women should fear the average man far more than the average bear because they will almost certainly never encounter the average bear, but will encounter thousands of men.
That said, the entire argument belies a deep misunderstanding of statistics. Many women, perhaps most women, have experienced trauma at the hands of men. Many men, perhaps most men, have not been perpetrators of that trauma. There is not a 1-1 relationship between victimized women and guilty men - there is a minority of men who negatively affect many women.
The entire thing has become flamebait and it is impossible to have an actual discussion about it. The point is to start a conversation about how women feel unsafe in society - not to talk about bear attacks and incels.
NeatoThis is to shock men so they stop and think about why this is the answer. I donât get how so many people are missing this.
Because the answer is inflammatory and the discourse around it is further fanning those flames. The title of the post is âEither ya understand why most women pick the đ» or you are the đ».â ffs. That deliberately implies that people who donât already understand the answer are stalkers and rapists, which defaultly puts people on the defensive.
Men are allowed emotions, and those emotions can cloud judgement. Men arenât cold calculating machines that automatically have the required knowledge and emotional intelligence to see through this esoteric bear question. Hell, thereâs a good chunk of women on side man.
Making the question so inflammatory is a double edged sword, you reach a larger audience, but youâre way more likely to drive people from your cause
But I wanted to have sex with her!