Pacrat173What is the Anti Commercial-Al license and why do people keep adding it to their comments?
@[email protected] and @[email protected] should be able to give their perspectives.
@[email protected] the license is actually a Creative Commons license for Non-Commercial uses. Creative Commons is a copyleft license that’s “free to use with some restrictions”. Mostly used in art, literature, audio, and film, for my part I’m using it to license my comments. Anybody can cite with attribution, but commercial use is forbidden by the license.
The why: I just don’t like non-opensource commercial ventures. Google, Microsoft, Oracle, Facebook, Apple, and so on are harmful in many ways.
Enforcement and legality: Microsoft’s Github CoPilot (a large language model / “AI”) was trained on copyrighted text source code. A few licenses clearly state that derivatives should also be opensource, which CoPilot is not. So there is a big lawsuit against it. Many artists, non-programmer authors, musicians, and others are also unhappy that AI was trained on their copyrighted works and have sued for damages.
Until these cases make it out of court, it will not be clear if adding a license to comments could even jeopardize commercial AI vendors.
Cosmic ClericWhat he / she said.
Yep, sorry. Still training my 20th century mindset for the 21st century. Teaching old dogs new tricks and all that, but I’m trying.
I hate using ‘they’ though, because it always signals “more than one” to me, plural, when I’m talking about a specific singular person.
“They” has always been an indirect pronoun.
“They” has always been an indirect pronoun.
Not really in daily usage though. It’s a recent thing.
I’m aware of the few historical cases when it was used in a plural sense. But most usage of it in modern times is singular. We’re now making a concerted effort today to start using it as a plural, since gender fluidity is a public thing now. But there’s generations that have used it as a singular, and it takes time to get used to that.
How exactly do you expect to see the “source” of a language model?
…
Hey does anyone want to buy a t-shirt from me with this guy’s worst comments printed on it?
How exactly do you expect to see the “source” of a language model?
- Nvidia’s AI software tricked into leaking data
- ChatGPT Can Reveal Personal Information From Real People, Google Researchers Show
- GitHub Copilot Emits GPL. Codeium Does Not.
Hey does anyone want to buy a t-shirt from me with this guy’s worst comments printed on it?
Yeah that’s not the source, that’s still output. You don’t seem to understand how LLMs work and yet have taken a bizarre stance on it anyway.
Previous work has already shown that image generators can be forced to generate examples from their training data—including copyrighted works—and an early OpenAI LLM produced contact information belonging to a researcher
You don’t seem to be able to read the articles, yet have responded with junk anyway.
You know that’s not the LLM’s ‘source’ right? It’s still output. Do you mean the training data? Is that what you mean by CoPilot should be open source? If CoPilot has learned from something GPL then everything else it outputs, or perhaps specifically its training data - should be GPL?
I want a t-shirt with Dalton from Roadhouse on it that says “Keep it Swayze!”.
Seriously what is up with people and the downvotes on this. It is just a link guys.
A lot of this hate feels a bit manufactured because I can’t honestly think of a good reason why so many would be so against this.
A lot of this hate feels a bit manufactured because I can’t honestly think of a good reason why so many would be so against this.
At this point I’m pretty sure its AI model creating astroturfers desperating trying to get people to not license their content (comments).
If its instead just anti-social people being tools for corporations, then I weep for the species.
Likely because it’s blatant misinformation and very spammy. Licences permit additional use, they do not restrict use beyond what copyright already does. I imagine there’d be fewer downvotes if they didn’t incorrectly claim licencing their content was somehow anti-AI. Still spammy and pointless, but at least not misinformation.
Imagine if someone ended every comment with “I DO NOT GRANT PERMISSION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO READ THIS COMMENT. ANY USE OF THIS COMMENT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR ANY REASON IS ILLEGAL. THIS COMMENT CANNOT BE USED AS EVIDENCE AGAINST ANY NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONS IN RELATION TO ANY CRIME.”
A bit silly, no?
As a lawyer, what’s your opinion on the CC BY-NC-SA v4 license?
Ironic, considering you are undoubtedly not a lawyer and have evidently never even dealt with copyright issues.
CC licences are handy copyleft licences to allow others to use your work with minimal effort. Using them to restrict what others can do is a fundamental misunderstanding of how copyright works. If you want to restrict others’ use of your work copyright already handles that, a licence can only be more permissive than default copyright law. You can sign a contract with another party if you want to further restrict their use of their work, but you’ll generally also have to give them something in return for the contract to be valid (known as “consideration”). If you wish to do so you can include a copyright notice (eg “Copyright © 2024 onlinepersona. All rights reserved.”) but that hasn’t been a requirement for a long time.
Ironic, considering you are undoubtedly not a lawyer and have evidently never even dealt with copyright issues.
How is it ironic? I never said I was a lawyer, nor did I ever say I was giving legal advice, nor have I ever spoken with authority on the subject.
You however… can’t see the irony of your own statement.
It’s ironic because you demand someone be a lawyer to refute an obviously incorrect claim made by a non-lawyer. If you consider me answer the question you asked directly of me “irony” then I suppose I can see how you might consider that comment ironic.
It’s definitely worth noting that you’ve attempted to shift the topic well away from the absurdity of using an open licence to do the opposite of what licences do and instead onto the topic of who is a lawyer and the definition of irony.
It’s ironic because you demand someone be a lawyer to refute an obviously incorrect claim made by a non-lawyer.
When you and others like you make responses of absolute authority and correctiveness on legal matters, then it’s fair to ask if you’re a lawyer.
Funny enough, every time that question is asked, not once does somebody come back and say “Yes, I’m a lawyer”. Instead they just double down with the same kind of response that you just gave.
Everyone’s a lawyer until they’re asked to prove their statements on a legal matter that they are advocating for.
If you replied with IANAL, and just expressed opinion, and not assumed legal fact, then you wouldn’t get that question.
The problem with your argument is everyone’s only telling you exactly what your own link also says; the licence only applies if someone needs your permission anyway. If they don’t need permission the licence doesn’t matter. You don’t need to be a lawyer, you only need to be literate.
If the licensor’s permission is not necessary for any reason–for example, because of any applicable exception or limitation to copyright–then that use is not regulated by the license.
And all that’s still ignoring the fact you’re putting a higher bar to refute the claim than to make it in the first place which is nonsense; anything which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
The problem with your argument is everyone’s only telling you exactly what your own link also says; the licence only applies if someone needs your permission anyway. If they don’t need permission the licence doesn’t matter. You don’t need to be a lawyer, you only need to be literate.
If the licensor’s permission is not necessary for any reason–for example, because of any applicable exception or limitation to copyright–then that use is not regulated by the license.
And all that’s still ignoring the fact you’re putting a higher bar to refute the claim than to make it in the first place which is nonsense; anything which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
You’re not responding to what I replied, and trying to obfuscate the issue.
You’re moving the goalpost away from the point I was making, that those who are not lawyers speak with authority of the subject and represent themselves as the final word on the legality of the subject, and when get challenged as such, avoid answering the challenge.
When you and others like you make responses of absolute authority and correctiveness on legal matters, then it’s fair to ask if you’re a lawyer.
Funny enough, every time that question is answered, not once does somebody come back and say “Yes, I’m a lawyer”. Instead they just double down with the same kind of response that you just gave.
Likely because it’s blatant misinformation and very spammy.
Its not, and feel free to block people who ‘spam’, vs. trying to format the whole Internet to look just like how you want it to look.
Imagine if someone ended every comment with “I DO NOT GRANT PERMISSION TO LAW ENFORCEMENT TO READ THIS COMMENT. ANY USE OF THIS COMMENT BY LAW ENFORCEMENT FOR ANY REASON IS ILLEGAL. THIS COMMENT CANNOT BE USED AS EVIDENCE AGAINST ANY NON-LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONS IN RELATION TO ANY CRIME.”
A bit silly, no?
Because a paragraph of ALL CAPS text, vs a single link with a very short sentence description, is not silly. /s
Thanks for this; this is now my signature line when dealing with one of these people.
JackGreenEarthAre you saying Microsoft CoPilot didn’t respect copyleft licences? How are they not getting totally sued for something obviously illegal? Or is it only when copyright violations harm big companies that people get sued?
I said so in my comment
So there is a big lawsuit against it
breadsmasherMy simple understanding of the idea is it forces AI companies to have to avoid taking those comments. If they did, they would need to provide attribution to the sources etc.
Time will tell if it works
ExcursionInversionIt won’t. It’s just like the boomers over on Facebook.
If they even notice it, they will say that the website TOS is the relevant license.
Eirher way, they will just go ahead and use it. None of us have the resources or perseverance to take them to court in a meaningful way.
What is the website ToS for different Lemmy instances, and does it really permit commercial use in AI?
As far as I can tell, they don’t prohibit it. Couldn’t find any mention of it in Lemmy.world TOS
Yes but the default state is that you have copyright over your posts/comments, and by sending them to your Lemmy server you are giving them some license to at least distribute the content to others (most services specify what license you are giving them in the ToS, which is where they would say that you are licensing them to sell you shit to AI companies). In theory by specifying the CC-SA-NC license or whatever that should be the license unless your Lemmy instance has some ToS terms that specifically say you’re granting additional privileges to someone by posting.
Whether AI companies actually care (they don’t) is a different story, but if eventually they actually have to follow copyright laws like everyone else then it could matter.
If they even notice it, they will say that the website TOS is the relevant license.
Does Lemmy World’s TOS state that I do not own the content that I upload to their site?
It says nothing, so you have copyright on it.
Adding a restrictive license to it only means as much as you’re willing and able to police it yourself and take others to court.
As an individual, for individual comments of two sentences each, this is not an option.
As an individual, for comments of two sentences each, this is not an option.
My content is usually more than a sentence or two.
Also, it puts a stake in the ground for any future enforcement done by others than myself if laws change.
Its a low-hanging-fruit way of protecting my content. If it works, great, and if it doesn’t, then I’ll vote for someone else for Congress the next time.
I’ve wasted more time replying on this single conversation/post than I have copy/pasting the link in all of my comments so far.
Appreciate your thoughts and responses!
Though we disagree on the effectiveness, I am all in favour of what you are pushing towards.
CosmicTurtle0 [he/him]The CC requires copyright holders to contact companies that violate the license and give them 30 days to remediate.
I highly doubt:
- people who put the CC-BY-NC license in their comment will troll AI bots to see if their specific comments are being used
- those same people can prove to the company that their comment was used
- the company will actually take them at their word and remove their comments from their training data
- even if all of the above are true, can afford an attorney let alone sustain that attorney through the case
- even if all of the above are true, prevail in a court of law
I think people adding the license is fine. It’s your comment. Do whatever. I don’t think it’s as harmful as sovereign citizens using their own license plate for “traveling”.
I’m retired, and have money, so you never know. 😇
Plus also, it’s also about future legislation, and putting a stake in the ground now. As it is, corporations are fighting each other over their content being used freely to program other corporations AI models, so I’m expecting a lot of lobbying money flying around in Washington just about now.
And finally, just because enforcement might be difficult, doesn’t mean a license can’t still be used.
My simple understanding of the idea is it forces AI companies to have to avoid taking those comments. If they did, they would need to provide attribution to the sources etc.
Time will tell if it works
That’s my understanding as well.
And yes, I can’t force them to be legal and to honor the license, but I can do my part, and hope those who are coding over on their side are open source minded, and are willing to honor the license.
Generally speaking, just because someone else may break the law doesn’t mean I can’t use the law to try to protect myself.
kevincoxIt doesn’t work.
By default you have complete ownership of all works you create. What that license link is doing is granting an additional license to the comment. (In this case likely the only available license.)
This means that people can choose to use the terms in this license rather than their “default” rights to the work (such as fair use which is which most AI companies are claiming). It can’t take away any of their default privileges.
It’s meaningless bullshit if they think the AI companies give a shit about copyright
zelifcamDidn’t this happen with Facebook a while back? Non tech savvy folks started adding meaningless disclaimers to their comments/posts? I’m having a hard time remembering the specifics.
OldManBOMBINIf by “a while back” you mean “from the dawn of time immemorial until this day,” then yes
plistigCopy this text 50 times to get a blue ICQ icon!
SanguineParI’m picturing cave paintings, followed immediately beneath by lines and lines of small text.
Yeah, same shit new sites.
ThavronYeah just adding a link to your comment doesn’t negate the TOS of where you post it.
Yeah just adding a link to your comment doesn’t negate the TOS of where you post it.
Is that in Lemmy World’s terms though?
Edit: Wow, you went back later and added that link to the YouTube video. So weird how people get trigged by this. /shakeshead
Even moreso: When you post online you typically give the website a license to distribute the content in the terms and conditions. That’s all the license they need, it doesn’t matter what you say in the comments.
Is that in Lemmy World’s terms?
The Ramen DutchmanYou’d have to check with that instance, but IIRC they don’t have any license on your content, meaning your content effectively falls under copyright unless states otherwise.
It’s the internet equivalent of a sovereign citizen putting a fake license plate on their car.
The ones they’re trying to “protect themselves” from do not give a shit.
By reading this comment you have entered in to a binding agreement to pay me $1000 per word.
I am not reading your comment, I am simply traveling through it with my eyeballs. Also your comment doesn’t have gold fringe and therefore lacks jurisdiction.
For God’s sake, it’s not even all caps in 45 degree angle…
I have a plastic screen in front of my phone screen so I read the plastic and not the agreement.
Don’t forget the red thumbprint!
I DO NOT UNDERSTAND YOUR INTENT!