girlfreddy

Why the Swedes love doing something that Americans hate

https://lemmy.ca/post/20210925

Why the Swedes love doing something that Americans hate - Lemmy.ca

Sweden is infamous for having some of the highest taxes in the world, and yet the country’s tax agency is still one of Sweden’s most trusted institutions. The Swedish attitude towards tax contrasts sharply with many countries where taxes can be a deeply divisive issue. We investigate what this says about Swedish society and how the popularity of the welfare state might survive growing challenges in the future.

Apr 28, 2024 at 4:44pmWeb
Show threadFlying SquidApr 28, 2024
Americans have been taught to hate taxes. They have been sold the idea that the original concept of “no taxation without representation” didn’t include the latter two words. Decades of Republicans demonizing taxes have done it.
Show threadgregorumApr 28, 2024
Pair that with the GOP systematically destroying public institutions by gutting public funding as much as possible while simultaneously eroding public trust. Our public education system? It used to be the best in the world until Regan and Bush I and II tore it to shreds. Same with our healthcare system. All in the name of privatization.
Show threadcedarmesaApr 28, 2024
Show threadjjjalljsApr 28, 2024
If it actually did result in republicans being crushed under a giant domino, at least we’d have that going for us.
Show threadjkrtnApr 29, 2024
Donald and his Trumpanzee cult are the giant domino, it is crushing us alongside the conservatives who pushed the smallest one.
Show threadUnderpantsWeevilApr 29, 2024

A lot of voters were. But the grifters running the party just got richer and richer and richer, enabling them to keep regurgitating the same “You’re unhappy because the Big Woke Government Is Too Communist” line ad nauseum.

Certain Republicans did get crushed. The Bush and Cheney families used to be at the center of GOP politics and now they’ve been forced out to the periphery. But others have profited immensely from their fall and risen to take their place. The Christian Dominionist Wing is rapidly consolidating control of the party under the Trump banner, with guys like Mike Johnson and Ted Cruz and Kristi Noem rising into the top ranks of the party while the Bloombergs have had to back away or jump ship to Team D.

Show threadtacosanonymousApr 28, 2024
That and the growing unrest due to wage gaps and our taxes not benefitting our society.
Show threadFlying SquidApr 28, 2024
Which is also due to Republicans cutting all social services and resisting new ones.
Show threadHubertManneApr 28, 2024
well swedes also get value for their taxes. I remember one who would talk about how it drove him nuts coming across pot holes and various broken infrastructure as it would be unacceptable for it to be like that for weeks were he was from.
Show threadFlying SquidApr 28, 2024
Right, but there’s a reason we don’t get value for our taxes and that reason is also Republicans. Especially Reagan.
Show threadHubertManneApr 28, 2024
oh yeah and we end up paying more in local taxes than any reduction we ever got on federal ones.
Show threadDojanApr 28, 2024
Yeah, re-paving happens all the time here. I visited Massachusetts back in 2019 and was shocked at the abysmal state of the roads.
Show threadHubertManneApr 28, 2024
yeah and that was a place with pretty good infrastructure and upkeep for the us.
Show threadDojanApr 29, 2024

I’ve heard that MA is a pretty solid place overall. To be fair I loved my stay, but I think the main reason for that was meeting up with a very close friend of mine. I recall this crossing in particular leaving me rather exasperated.

It seems like they’ve since paved over it, however. It is a bit baffling to me that it looks the same in 2012 as it did to me in 2019.

Bevor Sie zu Google Maps weitergehen

Show threadwolfpack86Apr 29, 2024

But Massachusetts has snowy winters and icy conditions which means they need to salt the roads. This is not something that they have to contend with in check notes Sweden?

/S

Show threadDojanApr 29, 2024

This year in particular has been frustrating when it comes to snow. I live pretty far south, about two hours south of Stockholm, and we’ve had snow for like half of April. It all melted at the end of March, there were spring flowers, and then we had a shit tonne of snow again, which melted, followed by more snow. So many false starts. 😩

It’s been snow free for a week now, I hope it holds.

Show threadwolfpack86Apr 30, 2024
Oh cool you live in old Denmark?
Show threadDojanApr 30, 2024
Not that far south, haha.
Show threadcaptainlezbianApr 28, 2024
Exactly. We’re also taught not to see the value we receive from our tax paying. And to fear and hate the IRS (especially since we have to file our tsxes
Show threadsomeguy3Apr 28, 2024
Nah they’ve been taught to hate government. Reagan finalized this with his “the scariest words you can ever hear are ‘I’m from the government and I’m here to help’”. He defined the government and anything the government does as bad and evil. This is the whole “get government to the size you can drown it in a bathtub”. This naturally goes to taxes are feeding the big evil government, so taxes are the enabler.
Show threadArmok: God of BloodApr 28, 2024
It’s more like a lot of people don’t feel like they are being represented. I wouldn’t complain if my taxes were housing homeless people or funding space exploration, but instead they’re funding 37 wars.
Show threadFlying SquidApr 28, 2024
Plenty of people would complain if their taxes were housing homeless people or funding space exploration though.
Show threadLemoineFaircloughMay 1, 2024

they’re funding 37 wars.

Do you have a source for this? I only see 28 global conflicts and 16 wars involving the United States marked as “Ongoing conflict” or “Another result”.

Global Conflict Tracker | CFR Interactives

The Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) is an independent, nonpartisan member organization, think tank, and publisher.

Council on Foreign Relations
Show threadArmok: God of BloodMay 1, 2024
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/hyperbole
hyperbole - Wiktionary, the free dictionary

Wiktionary
Show threadsuctionApr 29, 2024
The actual reason is they’re too dumb to understand basic concepts.
Show threadCheemsApr 29, 2024
The actual reason is because most of our taxes go to bombing foreign countries, subsidizing big businesses, or lining the pockets of the rich. If they went to something that helped actual Americans then I’m sure the perception would change. We need health care, public transportation, and better public education.
Show threadsuctionApr 29, 2024
I’m less optimistic it would change the perception of “those people”
Show threadHonytawkApr 29, 2024

You can see it in the way they display prices in shops.

Always without taxes, to make sure the customer can blame the taxes for the high prices. Even though the tax directly relates to the cost of the product.

There is absolutely no reason why a shop couldn’t show the total prices with taxes included. Because those taxes don’t change daily, nor does the shop move.

Show threadFlying SquidApr 29, 2024
Agreed. And it should be considered false advertising. Just like how gas stations in the U.S. have all of their prices end in .9, so gas isn’t $3.00, it’s $3.009. Which you can’t pay because you can’t pay in cent fractions. It just makes the gas look slightly cheaper.
Show threadsignorApr 30, 2024
Radiation is theft seems to be far more popular. They demonize it all in all cases. Entirely brainwashed without thinking about the services that benefit them. sigh
Show threadafraid_of_zombiesApr 28, 2024
Random clicknait by video “journalists” isn’t world news.
Show threadFlying SquidApr 28, 2024

Why are they only pseudo-journalists to you?

Maddy Savage is, apparently, a BBC staff journalist who specializes in Nordic issues.

maddysavage.com

Benoît Derrier is a videographer (a form of journalism) who has captured a lot of footage in Sweden.

www.benoitderrier.com

Did you even bother to look up their credentials before using those sarcasm quotes?

MADDY SAVAGE | Journalist, Presenter, Producer.

Show threadhenfredemarsApr 28, 2024
It’s because we get so little for those taxes. If we actually had functional services, I would feel like it’s worth it.
Show threadFlying SquidApr 28, 2024

It still wouldn’t for the vast number of brainwashed people who don’t think beyond “the government is taking some of my paycheck!”

Because a lot of those people are the same people who say things like, “why should I have to pay for universal health care when I’m healthy?”

Show threadrdyoungApr 28, 2024
We should stop voting for people who promise to dismantle said services. We also really need to move towards a basic income setup instead of having all of the hoops and paperwork for people to prove they are eligible for whatever it is. In the USA people going on disability are always denied even if they are a paraplegic. We would spend so much less money and other resources if we just made it available to everyone with no proof of eligibility needed.
Show threadrandomasideApr 28, 2024
“Government doesn’t work, we need less government” said unironically by the person elected to run the government.
Show threadhenfredemarsApr 28, 2024
It’s like how they’ve installed that DeJoy person to dismantle the Postal Service from inside out and then complain that the Postal Service is having issues, so we should privatize donate the business to rich people so their disgusting amounts of wealth can trickle down on our faces or something.
Show threadMagisterApr 28, 2024

Same in Canada, at least Quebec, 50% of my taxes go in health care system, I have no family doctor, all doctors are millionaires, nurses make 100k+, people dies in ER after 48h waiting

Education system is a joke.

Roads are potholes

Show threadCosmic ClericApr 28, 2024

people dies in ER after 48h waiting

How often does that happen?

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Show threadgirlfreddyApr 28, 2024
Tbh even once is too often. And it has happened all across Canada.
Show threadgirlfreddyApr 28, 2024
Not many physicians make over a million, and the way provincial governments have set up the bureaucracy around healthcare feeds the high wages, ie: it’s not the nurses caring for patients that are making $100k per year.
Show threadMagisterApr 28, 2024
About every specialists make 1M
Show threadgirlfreddyApr 29, 2024
Do you have any sources for that?
Show threadMagisterApr 29, 2024

Of course, most are in French, but easy to find any info on this, for instance this 2022 article journaldemontreal.com/…/pres-de-300medecins-milli…

Ophtalmologiste 2 603 027 $

Chirurgien général 2 442 354 $

Ophtalmologiste 2 166 048 $

Ophtalmologiste 2 116 473 $

Interniste 2 022 137 $

Radiologiste 2 017 941 $

Près de 300 médecins millionnaires au Québec, un record

En 2021, un nombre record de professionnels au Québec ont déclaré des revenus dans les sept chiffres.

Le Journal de Montréal
Show threadMagisterApr 29, 2024
even generalist doctor are millionnaire journaldemontreal.com/…/pres-de-270-medecins-mill…
26 médecins de famille ont rejoint le club des millionnaires en 2022 au Québec, un record

Pendant que le réseau de la santé est paralysé par des grèves, pas moins de 267 médecins ont empoché plus d’un million $ l’an dernier.

Le Journal de Montréal
Show threadgirlfreddyApr 29, 2024

In 2021 (the year your article is about) there were 21,176 physicians in the province and 294 made 7 figure salaries. That amounts to less than 1.2% of physicians.

So not all physicians make a million dollars, not even a lot of physicians make a million dollars. It is rare that this happens.

Show threadcatloafApr 29, 2024
How much of that goes right back to med school loan repayments?
Show threadMagisterApr 29, 2024
Canada =/= USA, it’s cheaper. A lot of that money goes to personal insurance IIRC
Show threadmagic_lobster_partyApr 28, 2024

We’re losing that in Sweden though. Public healthcare is becoming more and more under funded. Doctors barely have time to treat patients, so they’re often sending patients home with prescribed paracetamol.

The only way to get proper healthcare nowadays is through private healthcare, if you can afford it. I know many who haven’t gotten proper healthcare until they sought private healthcare. It sucks, because it used to be great.

Show threadPloppApr 28, 2024
And people vote for that shit because politicians dangle tax cuts in front of their faces. It’s really sad to see swedes fall for the lower taxes scam, when our entire thing is built on taxes.
Show threadIceApr 28, 2024

Naw, the issue is more with corruption creeping into the public system. Swedish society used to have a high degree of trust within the system due to a rather homogenous culture and relatively short social hierarchy, and as such structures of enforcement were rather unneccessary.

It’s become a lot more pressured as time goes on though, inefficiencies, abuse of public funds, straight up corruption which has created huge hole in the public purse - in addition to a sharp rise in organized crime and tax evasion among small businesses such as restaurants and shops.

Show threadPloppApr 28, 2024
Corruption is absolutely on the rise. And many opportunistic assholes are utilizing privatization as a vector to abuse the system. However, people still vote for lower taxes and that is a huge problem, especially when we find ourselves in a situation where so many institutions need more tax funding.
Show threadGiddyGapApr 29, 2024

So, what you’re saying is that you’d want to go to a system akin to what the US has? Hmm.

I mean, I’ll personally take affordable, universal healthcare that needs some tweaking over a system that will bankrupt me if I break my arm or, God forbid, get seriously ill.

Show threadmagic_lobster_partyApr 29, 2024
No I’m saying I want to go back to a public healthcare that doesn’t suck.
Show threadillahApr 28, 2024

Also Sweden’s population is about the size of Los Angeles county. Every time I see Scandinavia held up as something to aspire to folks should remember how small and historically homogenous these countries are.

Comparing the US to the EU as a whole is a much more accurate way to look at things, with us states being akin to eu member countries.

Show threadsuctionApr 29, 2024
There are many different languages spoken in the EU, which alone disqualifies it for any comparison to the US
Show threadillahApr 30, 2024

I feel reasonably confident that there are just as many languages spoken in just Los Angeles county, if there are any parallels to NYC:

untappedcities.com/…/fun-maps-nyc-is-most-linguis…

Fun Maps: NYC is Most Linguistically Diverse Urban Area in the World - Untapped New York

Did you know that NYC residents speak at least 637 languages and dialects? An impressive new map highlights the linguistic diversity of New York City.

Untapped New York
Show threadsuctionApr 30, 2024
Officially, you dumb fuck? Just stop
Show threadKeenFlameApr 29, 2024
Why
Show threadacockworkorangeApr 28, 2024
No you don’t. You pay a little and get a little. Go live in a country where you actually pay a lot and get nothing and then you’ll have a case.