razoloto999

WTF is going on with the world? Why are there so many manufacturing jobs that require rotating schedules? Are they just trying to destroy your soul and your health?

https://sh.itjust.works/post/18399200

WTF is going on with the world? Why are there so many manufacturing jobs that require rotating schedules? Are they just trying to destroy your soul and your health? - sh.itjust.works

I have been looking for manufacturing, assembly, production positions all over the Midwest. It’s absolutely shocking how many of them want you to work rotating shifts. Look at the image I submitted. That company wants you to work 3rd shift one week, then 2nd shift the next, then 1st shift the next, and then repeat it over and over. How in the hell is that healthy? And this requirement for rotating shifts is prevalent in so many job ads now. WTF is going on with the world? Full job ad here: https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=2ac8cd23b6411f88 [https://www.indeed.com/viewjob?jk=2ac8cd23b6411f88]

Apr 26, 2024 at 1:47pmWeb
Show threadHocEnimVeniApr 26, 2024
Can’t unionize if you don’t have the energy to fight.
Show threadmojo_raisinApr 26, 2024
Yep, you probably end up working with different groups of people too also making unionization harder.
Show threadrdyoungApr 26, 2024
Actually, that would make it even easier, in theory. You’d meet more of your coworkers and would be able to more easily spread the word and discuss pros/cons, etc.
Show threadRansackApr 26, 2024
How would you figure out who the plant is?
Show threadrdyoungApr 26, 2024
By not giving a shit. If they are spying on you, they are scared and you have all of the power.
Show threadRansackApr 26, 2024

No my guy, the hero doesn’t always win in the real world. This is where you get placed on PIP or start having performance issues, or get a promotion to a different team where there is a clash with your new manager.

Given any opportunity I will always be for a union but good damn if the cards aren’t stacked against unions.

Show threadrdyoungApr 26, 2024

That’s the difference between us. I’ve always found a way to get by and any work place or so called boss that wasn’t worthy of my time or energy, didn’t get that investment.

Maybe I was just raised different but I am more than willing to tell someone to fuck off if/when its needed, it of course starts more diplomatically than a literal middle finger but I was never afraid to escalate to an actual “fuck off, I’m out of here” when it was needed. It’s one reason why I work for myself, I only have myself and my bills to answer to.

There is a growing movement towards unions and other forms of collective bargaining. If you want to keep being afraid of your own shadow, that’s fine but don’t you dare do others the disservice of pushing them away from taking control of their own destinies.

Show threadmojo_raisinApr 27, 2024
Maybe
Show threadrazoloto999Apr 26, 2024

Can’t unionize if you don’t have the energy to fight.

The Indeed reviews for this specific company and location state that they already have a union. One review states:

“Union is garbage unless the top guys like you.”

So, their union is not doing anything to prevent the insane rotating shift schedule.

Show threadHocEnimVeniApr 27, 2024
If the union bosses are pricks or shills then you don’t have a union, but a glorified HR department. Something we’ve seen lately is that the unions still have to fight to get what they rightfully deserve. Unfortunately the fight to unionize is only the start of it.
Show threadKidplayer_666Apr 26, 2024
They probably want to maximise the uptime of the machinery
Show threadbionicjoeyApr 26, 2024
That doesn’t justify the rotation. Just hire specific people for each shift.
Show threadDkarmaApr 26, 2024

They’re trying to “make it fair” so everyone has to share the bad shifts.

Also they’re trying to prevent burnout maybe.

Mostly it’s about saving money cuz they don’t have to pay shift premiums for 2nd and 3rd shift.

Show threadBoneheadApr 26, 2024
Then make the rotations 6 months, not one week. There is absolutely no need for a rolling schedule in one week increments. I've done it. If you want to prevent burnout, that is absolutely not the way to do it.
Show threadsnooggumsApr 26, 2024

Having worked 3rd shift in the past myself and knowing multiple people who have worked rotating shifts, there are a lot of people who do want frequent rotations so they can do things on a ‘normal schedule’ every couple of weeks. They either learned to sleep on demand from the military or think they can just switch constantly with no issues, but really do want the frequent rotation.

Obviously the companies are taking advantage of those kind of people by giving them what the workers think they want even though it is horrible in the long term for most people.

Show threadMsPenguinetteApr 26, 2024

They have a few options of what to do while treating workers fairly, even under the framework of capitalism

  • raise wages until workers are willing to work the nightshift permanently
  • raise prices till demand matches the output you are able to achieve while treating your workers fairly
  • increase production throughput by opening additional lines so supply you output matches demand
  • bring democracy into the workplace and let the workers decide if they want to work rotating shifts so the company can save money

Fucking over your workers isn’t an acceptable option. As a society, we can’t accept people’s lives being made worse in the name of saving money.

Show threadEchApr 26, 2024

Also they’re trying to prevent burnout maybe.

I dunno about everyone else, but a rotating shift like that would destroy me. A locked in schedule, even overnight, would be infinitely better for preventing burnout for me.

Show threadAltima NEOApr 26, 2024
I’m gonna guess they have a hard time hiring for the night shifts. I know at my job they struggle hiring people who want to work those.
Show threadBigMikeInAustinApr 26, 2024
Your job has a hard time paying enough for people to work there.
Show threadstevedidwhat_infosecApr 26, 2024

It does tho in my opinion

Let’s play this out, what’s more likely to get job applicants:

Job with rotating shifts Working 3rd shift

Show threadkbin_space_programApr 26, 2024
They're trying to accomplish that without the aid of an industrial engineer who would immediately tell them their plan was shit.
Show threadbionicjoeyApr 26, 2024
This seems idiotic from the employer’s perspective. You’re limiting your pool of candidates a lot by requiring that their life can accomodate essentially 24 hours of possible shift time. Companies do shit like this and then complain “nobody wants to work anymore”
Show threadRedditWandererApr 26, 2024

Slash education, raise cost of living, lower the minimum working age and forcing ppl to work shit jobs is actually viable.

I think there’s a political party whose whole platform is based on this for this very reason

Show threadapfelwoiSchoppenApr 26, 2024
It is a selective filter. It seeks the most desperate because they will take any and all abuse.
Show threadxkforceApr 26, 2024
They also leave the milisecond they can which means the company constantly has to find replacements and retrain them. Lots of resources wasted just to abuse people rather than maximize profit by treating people better.
Show threadBubbleMonkeyApr 26, 2024
Yeah well they have degrees or something that says it’s a good idea for profits or whatever and damn the consequences, so checkmate, prole.
Show threadapfelwoiSchoppenApr 26, 2024

This is true. I once had a boss with an MBA. I am highly skilled, had a decade under my belt at the company. She once almost laid me off one year because her and another middle manager thought I didn’t “fit with the team” any more.

Turns out I was just going through a divorce, was deeply depressed, and simply getting shit done and going home.

She knew but that MBA mentality just saw that I wasn’t joining extra calls, putting in extra hours, volunteering to manage projects, etc. It wasn’t even about department or company performance, we were in some of our best years ever. Fuck MBAs.

Show threadUsernameblankfaceApr 26, 2024
I find it awful how quickly extra work becomes normal, expected, minimum work.
Show threadRefurbished RefurbisherApr 26, 2024
Meaning they don’t have to worry about increasing wages or providing benefits for people who work there for longer.
Show threadbionicjoeyApr 27, 2024
I think part of the idea here is that people with options wouldn’t accept such an abusive schedule in the first place.
Show threadkbin_space_programApr 26, 2024

As long as "temporary" foreign worker programs exist, there isn't a shortage of labour as far as the elite are concerned.

A limited pool of local applicants is a benefit to them. Then they get to bring in foreigners who don't know the value of their work in a western country and don't know the laws that protect them, both labour laws and actual criminal laws.

Show threadGregorGizehApr 26, 2024
They also import social unrest and friction, and foster resentment towards the foreigners instead of the capitalists. Essentially the reason why I am opposed to most forms of immigration, while subscribing to generally leftist ideals.
Show threadkbin_space_programApr 26, 2024

Also theyre being used to allow for continued captialist growth while ignoring issues that are leading to stagnant or even regressive birth rates.

A great example there being Justin Trudeau's immigration policy.

Show threadbluGillApr 26, 2024
People don't want to work 3rd shift - the rest of the world (your family, sports...) all work 1st shift. 2nd shift is only slightly better. It is probably better for your life to work 3rd shift for 1 week of every 3, than 3rd shift constantly - those other 2 weeks you can live semi-normal and thus have friends.
It still sucks, probably the best compromise.
Show threadInquisitiveApathyApr 26, 2024

those other 2 weeks you can live semi-normal and thus have friends.

I don’t think you’re thinking about how hard this will absolutely fuck over your sleep. There is no way you can be a functional human being for those two weeks with this consistent and drastic of a schedule change.

Show threadpleasejustdieApr 26, 2024
As someone who was forced to do this for a couple months when I was in the Army, rotating shifts destroys your ability to get good sleep, its horrendous to actually experience. It took about 2 months before people started getting so sleep deprived that people started failing PT tests and it took the brigade commander looking at our battalion and asking “wtf is going on over there?” and hearing what our battalion had done to our shift schedule and put a stop to it. He called over every single soldier who failed their PT test to hear our excuses, and when most of us were first time failures and we all had the exact same complaint, by the time he got to me, he was like “You’ve been on rotating shifts, unable to sleep, and were forced to take this test after a shift when you’re completely exhausted like everyone else?” “yes sir” “ok, don’t expect that shift rotation to last, I’ll be talking to your battalion commander after this. Send in the next person.” Dude was ready to just start ripping into us but changed his tune right quick after hearing about the fucked up shift schedule and lack of any common sense in the leadership’s ability to plan properly. One of the few times where shit actually rolled uphill.
Show threadtburkholApr 26, 2024
It’s the kind of thing that sounds “fair” to a executive who’s been trained to think about human resources like any other commoditized cog, with no concept of human physiology or empathy.
Show threadBizzleApr 26, 2024
2nd shift is great if you don’t have a family. You’re asleep when the kids go to school, you’re at work when they get home. Can’t have dinner as a family. I like 3rd, I go in after the kids go to bed and I wake up in time to pick them up.
Show threadColeSlothApr 26, 2024

It’s a way if keeping the less favorable shift times at full working capacity while not having to pay more for those times.

Typically (back in the day) you may pay day shift employees $12 an hour, but in order to get enough people to choose night shift, they’d have to offer $14 an hour.

Then, of course, if you started nights and were actually asked if you’d like to move to days, if they needed more on day shift, no one would ever want to swap and except a pay cut in order to do it. Of course, if you got to keep your higher rate and move to days then everyone on days would get mad that they weren’t making as much.

So yeah, it’s all corporate bullshit so they can move you around to any hours they’d like in order to keep the 24/7 operation going and all shifts balanced with workers without having to change any pay rates.

Show threadrazoloto999Apr 26, 2024

while not having to pay more

A lot of people in this thread are saying the same thing. I can understand the surface level math of it all. But there has to be a cost to losing employees due to the harshness of the schedule and then having to hire and train new employees.

Look at the job posting that I posted. They are offering a referral bonus of up to $5,000. They probably would not need to do that if they weren’t having a hard time finding willing employees.

Just looking at the surface level math and saying it is because they don’t have to pay a differential is not taking in to account employee turnover or the need to pay referral bonuses to attract people.

Show threadbaldingpudendaApr 26, 2024
That sounds like a problem for a year down the road, but if the company hits its marks this quarter the CEO gets a bonus.
Show threadColeSlothApr 26, 2024

Referral bonuses never happen at the start. It’s always after something like 6 months or a year of the referred employee being there, so depending on the job, there might not be great odds that both employees will still be present a year later.

Also, if it’s a job where the time to train isn’t that long, a high turnover rate may be exactly what the company wants. No raises, no long term employees trying to start a union, lower retirement costs, less people signing into benefits, no accrued sick time being used, etc.

Some companies operate on a “fuck you” budget.

Show thread_number8_Apr 26, 2024
companies don’t even have to worry about that shit anymore. things are so perilous that there will always be people desperate enough for anything no matter how shitty the conditions
Show threadshikitohnoApr 26, 2024
It also makes it harder for employees to do things that would give them a chance at getting a better job. Can’t go to college anywhere that requires attendance as part of the grade if you’re on a shift like that. Also can’t get another job that might turn into a better opportunity, they won’t deal with your constantly changing availability.
Show threadVanthApr 26, 2024

Do they pay more per hour when a person is working 3rd shift?

My first thought is that 3rd shift, in my experience, gets paid more. So having everyone take turns rotating through shifts, they’re trying to avoid that extra pay differential. They will say it’s “accounted for” in base pay but it comes out lower than if a person just took a job on 3rd and got paid a bit more than 1st shift people.

100% agree with you, sounds awful and I wouldn’t do it if I had other viable options.

Show threadZorqueApr 26, 2024
Having worked that specific kind of rotating shift, you still get the shift differential (a whole 25 cents for 2nd and 50 for 3rd, wooooo). That was also with a (neutered) union.
Show threadVanthApr 26, 2024
It’s been approx 6 years since I worked a job with shifts and the differential for 3rd was $1.50. 50 cents is an insult. We weren’t a union shop, management just hadn’t gone full asshole, apparently.
Show threadZorqueApr 27, 2024

It was probably more for better paid positions, but after three years sitting at the bottom I got kind of sick of the shifts and being treated like shit.

I work in an office now... still sucks, but at least I get to sleep overnight.

Show threadspacesatanApr 26, 2024
The rotating to an earlier shift is even more insane. Maybe I’m wrong but I imagine almost everyone finds it easier to push through and stay up later than try to go to sleep 7 hours early.
Show threadÐ Greıt Þu̇mpkinApr 26, 2024
They want to keep production rolling continuously to avoid the lag of shutting down and starting the machinery back up again, but they also know how few people are around who’ll willingly work the graveyard shift so they’re basically trying to package it into the job no matter what so that they don’t have to negotiate for volunteers, because now it’s part of the job description contract you signed!
Show threadBigMikeInAustinApr 26, 2024
Have fun keeping machines running with enough workers, or when accidents happen because workers are too tired.
Show threadMaeveApr 26, 2024
Correct. I walked off a job for missing mandatory overtime (12 hours, 7 days), for having dared had the flu, probably from lack of sleep and sun, with a doctor's note. Went straight to another factory, explained what happened (this was a Wednesday), was told to rest until Monday. Started on Monday five eight hour days, a hiring bonus that covered my lost wages, and immediately made more production. That factory only ran one shift, too. They knew the value of happy, healthy employees. Unfortunately, that happened in the late eighties. So sorry for factory worker abuse now.
Show threadsamus12345Apr 26, 2024

Unfortunately, that happened in the late eighties.

People talk about the greed of the 80s, but it was paradise compared to corporations now.

Show threadMaeveApr 26, 2024
Yes.
Show threadRandomStickmanApr 26, 2024
If anyone's willing to put up with that schedule you might as well try for being an air traffic controller. Way higher salary.
Show threadcommandarApr 26, 2024
Worth noting that ATC is unusual in that there is both a maximum age that you can start (30) as well as a mandatory retirement age (56).
Show threadThrowawayPermanenteApr 26, 2024
Sure, as long as you fit the desired demographic profile
Show threadRobotToasterApr 26, 2024
Possibly so they don’t have to pay night shift more?
Show threadvormadikterApr 26, 2024

Jeez. Rotations like that exist in “Western Countries” since what, 50 years? 60? That’s not new and the “surprise” here shows that you, dear poster, must be new to the game.

Anyhow, where i live and work (somewhere in Germany) you get paid extra for night and extra extra if shift is during the night on a week end.

Is that shit nice? Ok, no. Does it pay? Fuck, yes. All of my colleagues doing this since 20ish years whine and bitch BUT have a house, two cars, fly to vacations to turkey and shit.

Your learning?

  • Accept, that this shit exists and will always exist. 2, Unionize. Have companies pay you fairly for what you do.
  • Stop whining. As long as you whine, you are a victim. Victims dont act or unionize or take things into their hands. Victims cry, roll on their tears and get fucked. THATS what companies like, cause you’re easy to deal with.
    • Show threadEfwisApr 26, 2024

    Unionize. Have companies pay you fairly for what you do.

    The problem with that here I. The states are two fold. First of all if the companies could, at least here in the states, they wouldn’t allow unionization. They don’t want to pay fairly for what you do. All these companies want to do is make as much money as possible, while paying the workers as little as possible.

    Most of the companies here would like us to work until we die on the lines, but pay us nothing to do the work so they could make it all. Companies don’t give a damn about workers rights, or being fair to us. A lot of non-union shops will fire you for trying to bring a union in. They would be extremely happy if the labor boards, OSHA etc would cease to exist.