You saying Israel killed him is like saying Palestine committed Oct. 7th’s terrorist attack.

Israel didn’t kill the guy, a lone Israeli student did. This is one of those times when facts and nuance matter.

If Arafat wasn’t serious about negotiations, why sit down at all and risk his position in the PLO? For decades the ‘Three Nos’ stunted any Arab-Israeli diplomacy, and the maximalists still hold sway today as they did then

Israel refused the right of return for Palestinians as a whole, while for decades doing all within their power to boost Jewish immigration, bankroll Aliyah flights, rubber stamp naturalization, and regular ‘missionary’ trips to visit US and European nations - all only for ethnic Jews, and their spouses.

A two-tiered system based on race is hardly a fair deal, especially in a democratic system where your people are denied fair representation whilst Jew from the world over are invited to jump on a plane and become a full citizen after three months

Camp Davis and the Oslo Accords were a way for Israel to change the De Facto annexation of the West Bank into a De Juro annexation. While giving the PA a ‘semblence’ of a state still under Israeli Military Control. There was no offer of a sovereign state, nor of right of return. Arafat didn’t reject a Two-State Solution, he walked away from a verbal ‘offer’ of taking 90% (later ~80% once written up in Oslo) of the Occupied Palestinian Territories, while ignoring all Palestinian wants such as Right of Return and Sovereignty with an end to Occupation.

Camp David: a tragedy of errors - The Guardian

[Deconstructing Camp David](www.aljazeera.com/…/deconstructing-camp-david wet) - Al Jazeera

What Really Happened Between Barak and Arafat at Camp David? - Haaretz

They wanted a unified Arab state, and they wanted the non-Arab immigrants out

It’s true they wanted it to be an Arab state, since the vast majority were Arab. It’s not that they wanted ‘non-arab immigrants’ out, it’s that Zionist Settler Colonialism was quite different from normal immigration. Instead of integration, the early land purchases led to the expulsion of tens of thousands of Palestinians in the early 1900’s. Many Palestinians opposed the Zionist Land Purchases and Immigration because of fears they would be forced out of their homes and communities, not because they were Jewish.

The Concept of Transfer 1882-1948

Transfer Committee and the JNF led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate.

And failing that, they tried to put a genocide on them

Are you talking about the Ethnic Cleansing of Palestinians? Because that was planned and carried out. There was nothing remotely equivalent from Palestinians or the Arab Liberation Army.

Don’t let facts get in your way:

en.wikipedia.org/…/2006_Palestinian_legislative_e…

International observers noted that the elections, for the most part, were conducted fairly and in accordance with international standards.

There were some reports of voter obstruction - caused by Israel.

I thought we don’t accept the results of the election?

Immediately after the election, Fatah, with US and Israeli support dismissed the Hamas government, which Hamas obviously disagreed with.

At this point there’s a stalemate where we (the West) and Fatah don’t recognize the Hamas government and Hamas can’t call an election because they have not officially governed.

What the OP did was try to justify an ongoing genocide by calling the other side terrorists.

I don’t believe that is what their comment was implying at all. Again, both things can be true. Hamas can be terrorists and Israel can be guilty of exceptionally disproportionate violence fueling an agenda of unforgivable genocide.

Reality doesn’t exist in black and white.

Based on time under starvation conditions, the mass graves the IDF seems constitutionally incapable of not leaving behind, and counts of missing family members.

Can you share your methodology of calculating this number? You are not basing this on anything but your gut-feeling. Given how most of your comments consist of blindly parroting propaganda instead of even trying to form any in-depth understanding of this topic, that's not surprising. Hell, you once attacked me for trying to bring nuance into this debate, at which point I was done with you for that day, because could there be anything more intellectually bankrupt?

is there any line crossed, any action taken by the IDF that you wouldn’t automatically defend?

Sure thing. If orders to deliberately exterminating Palestinians came to light, that would certainly be it. Those should exist if the goal of the IDF, as frequently claimed by people like you who make up fantasy numbers to then feel outraged about, was genocide. Of course, this clashes with various efforts of the same IDF to prevent Palestinian civilians from being harmed, which is kind of odd, don't you think?

So either they are using e.g. roof knocking and a whole range of other warning measures just for PR-purposes (even though it significantly hurts their military efforts and their PR - Hamas can escape and the moment any building is being roof-knocked, dozens of cameras are immediately on it in order to film it, with lots of people feeling perfectly safe, trusting that this building and only this building will be hit; strange that) or the truth isn't as simple as you are so desperately trying to make it be. You haven't exactly been writing particularly well thought out comments on this topic at any point. Not that this limits your enthusiasm for your self-righteous preaching. Dunning, meet Kruger.

Do you think it is right that Palestinians prisoners should be zip tied long enough that their limbs die and need too be cut off?

No, but good job trying distracting from your fantasy numbers. This might constitute criminal neglect. Those responsible should be punished and measures should be undertaken to prevent this from occurring. While internal review processes are far from perfect at the IDF, they do at least exist and are being applied. Two senior officers responsible for ordering the recent air strikes on aid workers were sacked, for example. The same could happen here as well.