Flying SquidBut how would they be able to live on that?
CypherSo how does this wealth tax work? Are stock holdings taxed? Stock quantity doesn’t magically go up unlike fiat currency which governments just print more of.
None of these numbers make any sense in terms of how capital actually works. Is the government meant to take the profit in stocks? Because these billionaires aren’t selling that much stock each year and aren’t earning that much from CEO paychecks.
Not to say CEO paychecks aren’t obscene…
And what do you do when they pack up and move themselves and their companies to tax havens?
This entire thread is people who don’t understand how the system works.
That or they understand the system is broken
JakdraculaThe systems not broken it was built this way.
SLVRDRGNThe system was built broken.
You can understand something is broken without knowing how to fix it. But you can’t fix something without knowing how it works or being extremely lucky.
Naa I think a large chunk just think most of these guys have that in cash laying around. Someones liquid worth is a lot less than what they have. Everyone of these guys has their money tied to a company. If you make them sell the stock to cover the tax you’re going to watch these companies go under.
I’m not saying it’s a good system, just that it doesn’t work the way these memes act like they do.
Would you like to have the gov tax you on your entire worth? Probably not.
s38b35M5“Finance and economics is too complex for the poors to understand. Just trust us; we know what’s best doe everyone.” -The not-poors
RivalarrivalIs the government meant to take the profit in stocks?
Yes.
There is no need for the billionaire to liquidate their stock in order to pay a tax in dollars. The IRS just confiscates an equal percentage of every position they hold, and liquidates it over time, selling no more than 1% of each position’s total traded volume per month, so as to not radically impact the stock price.
When they pack up and move, we say “mission accomplished”. Let them leech off an adversary’s economy.
The IRS just confiscates an equal percentage of every position they hold
Congrats there are now 3 men who can collaborate to collapse the government by shorting an insane position, have a portion of it seized, and wipe out all government revenue for a year. Sure they’d also be infinitely broke but you just gave them the lever to kill a country.
How would that possibly wipe out all government revenue for a year? The government didn’t have to buy the stock. There is no way they’d be worse off revenue wise than the current situation where there is no tax taken on these held stocks.
Position vs stock. Learn to read.
So the IRS seizes an option on the shorted position rather than the position itself, which comes due when Or, any liability for a position is assessed back to the investor rather than the government. Or any number of other rules are established to keep the IRS from assuming liability for losses.
And, of course, the three men who collaborated are charged with securities fraud and conspiracy.
Liquidators would also have rules allowing them to react to market manipulation and other artificial market influences.
The rich aren’t fleeing Massachusetts despite a wealth tax.
Turns out there are disadvantages to living in tax havens over living in Boston and Cape Cod.
$1.5 billion in estimated revenue: A look at the Mass. 'millionaire's tax' first year | WBUR News
Advocates promised the new tax would bring in over $1 billion a year in new revenue. And they quickly saw their predictions surpassed: the state Department of Revenue estimates it will generate over $1.5 billion this fiscal year.
But you can save so much tax money by moving to the middle of a desert in India!
Even a nicer place like the Cayman Islands.
Good luck shopping at a high-end fashion boutique or going to the opera there.
But John Galt did it…in the libertarians’ imagination.
We would be so screwed if all the billionaires went and lived in some secret mountain location. They should totally go do that.
Tap for spoiler~It will make tracking them down so much easier~
a 4% surtax on incomes over $1 million
Musk isn’t earning $220 billion a year, so clearly as I asked, this appears to be based on stock valuation.
People spruiking and sharing absolute nonsense with zero idea of what is income, what is capital and how a “wealth tax” would actually work.
This is why your opponents laugh at you.
Who are my opponents?
Also, the question was:
And what do you do when they pack up and move themselves and their companies to tax havens?
The answer is, they generally don’t leave.
Also, the question was:
The question was
So how does this wealth tax work?
I know because I asked it and not a single one of you has had a coherent response.
Oh like the tax in Massachusetts?
The tax that would only see Musk pay $575 million and not the ass-pulled $6.6 billion?
Who are my opponents?
Apparently the ultra wealthy but you seem a bit confused.
I copied and pasted the question I answered. I’m sorry you didn’t care for the answer, but don’t ask a question if you don’t want it answered.
As for the ultra wealthy laughing at me, why should I give a shit?
In fact, why should I give a shit if anyone I don’t care about is laughing at me?
Well, maybe not the laughing, but if the wealthy can play in the nuance more confidently and accurately, even if you are right broadly you’ll have a more uphill battle trying to win. If they point to the rhetoric and are and to highlight incorrect details, they say “see, they just don’t understand things, so clearly ignore them”. Or if you “win” they play in the nuance to stack the deck in a different way so they win again, despite you ostensibly getting what you drive for.
However if you have on point critiques and suggestions to consider, maybe it’s easier to drive for a system that reigns then in better, and is less likely to just let them move the loopholes.
As SunTzu wrote: If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat.
So how does this wealth tax work?
Answer found in less than 10 seconds on the web. taxfoundation.org/taxedu/glossary/wealth-tax/
Who are my opponents?
It’s not really the ultra wealthy, it’s the ironically impoverished sycophantic masses repeating pro-kleptocrat capitalist drivel on the behalf of billionaires.
So are you arguing that stock valuations mean nothing?
billionaires make it difficult to judge their worth… because as pointed out they are trying to not pay taxes.
I’m arguing that by FlyingSquid’s own assertion that the Mass. wealth tax could be copied that the numbers make zero sense.
What’s not to get here? Read what he claimed and read the link he provided.
Stock evaluations have value, and they’re already taxed upon realization of gains. The meme says we should take away Billions of Elon Musk’s stock shares every year, but idk that sounds like a pretty vague and unsustainable plan. Most companies would probably just go private and do a series of offerings to lower evaluations. We need to at least clearly define a bracket of who it effects, is it any stock shares amounting above 1 Billion? 1 Million? Also, why is the rate in the meme a 2.98%?
It’s just not a plan. It’s the opposite of a plan, it’s a desired end result with no details at all.
That’s not a wealth tax, that is an income tax (+4% for the 1M+ tax bracket).
Countries that have a general wealth tax are Norway, Spain, and Switzerland. Countries with a selective wealth tax (beyond property taxes) are Belgium, Italy, and the Netherlands. Source: pgpf.org/…/what-is-a-wealth-tax-and-should-the-un… (under the heading “How have wealth taxes worked in other countries”)
Sounds funny you trying to tax these billionaires and are failing to find any obvious way… which is what these billionaires do to hide from tax and paying their fair share.
jennwiththeseaI think you’re confusing a wealth tax with an income tax. They’re different. As for how these wealthy people pay, it’s not up to the government to figure out how someone pays their taxes. The onus is on the taxpayer.
I have a house. I say have because while I have the title to the house, the bank has a lien that basically means they own it. Like a stock, my house increases in value. The government in my state then taxes me on the value of the house. Taxing me on unrealized gains in the house (I have not sold it) is like taxing a rich person on the unrealized gains of stock (that they have not sold).
It is possible to come up with ways to tax stock. It will be imperfect like all tax systems are. It will be better than what we have now.
Indeed, property taxes should just be extended to also cover stocks and bonds.
That should be the basic premise.