return2ozmaRich Americans are getting second passports, citing risk of instability
Jo MiranThere’s no downside if you can do it and extreme wealth is only a requirement if some of the many offers don’t apply to you. Spain was basically giving away citizenship a few years back. Bulgaria is pretty open.
cm0002These are all lame countries anyways, now I would love to have a Denmark or Sweden passport or something but last I looked it was pretty hard (For the lowly plebs anyways…)
Kraven_the_HunterSpain is a lame country?
They are if they’re just giving it passports to rich ppl. Imagine welcoming in ppl who are collectively fucking up the world and somehow thinking you’ll be exempt if you let them into your country?
It isn’t like they are supervillains. The system allows bad actors. Look at all the issues these companies have had trying to branch outside the US and slamming into labor laws, regulations, culture, taxes, etc.
Yeah, because it’s full of British ex-pats complaining about all the Spaniards and how much the Brexit they voted for is kicking their dicks.
Brexit was sold using lies and lots of us (especially expats) didn’t vote for brexit. It was close to 50-50 vote.
Schengen is Schengen.
DevCatI’ve lived in the US for quite a few decades, but I’m still a German citizen. When asked why I don’t take US citizenship, I give a three-part answer:
This is a personal decision but I think it’s better to be pragmatic about it. If your country of origin permits dual citizenship I’d do the naturalization simply because it gives you more flexibility. It’s a more secure status, no need to worry about renewing or spending longer periods abroad. And you get to vote of course.
Citizenships and passports are bureaucracy and they don’t define who you are, that comes from your heart. I’d look at it as a practical matter.
My understanding is that Germany is looking to start permitting dual citizenship later this year.
Citizenships and passports are bureaucracy and they don’t define who you are, that comes from your heart. I’d look at it as a practical matter.
You sound like my wife before I gave in and we got a marriage license. I don’t need a fucking shaman or some civil servant in a black weird dress to legitimize our relationship.
I felt/feel the same way. Still got married to my wife for legal reasons. Her mother is insane and if something happened to my wife, we don’t want her getting power of attorney, nor do we even want her in the hospital if it can be avoided.
That’s fair, I did however need some shaman to give my wife healthcare. Thankfully anyone can be one these days
They’re not legitimizing your relationship, they’re granting accesss to legal rights.
They are saying you get X rights if you have Y status. Where Y is your legally recognized relationship with a person.
It is understood that if my wife can’t make a medical decision and one has to be made I can repeat what her wishes would have been. Why is that? Because we are married? Why does being married matter? Because it is a relationship? Why does that differ from any other relationship? Because it is a legitimate one.
This whole process is the government or some religion saying this relationship between two people is a special exception from the rules governing regular relationships.
Other relationships are legitimate, they just aren’t legally recognized by the government. You can make a contract that gives anyone rights to medical decision-making.
Cool. So there was never once in history laws that regulated say unmarried people living together? Remind me what was going on in Loving v. Virginia.
How about immigration? Do you think you are going to sponsor a person you aren’t legally married with just because you two are in love?
You say cool but you don’t seem chill to me
Can I ask why you live in the US when you could live in Europe?
It’s a long story for another time.
This is fine🔥🐶☕🔥It’s Friday. We’ve got time to kill.
Ok no worries. I just can’t help but be curious about someone living there when they don’t have to.
Just so you know, you may get fucked financially if your wife dies (or vice versa). I would look into it.
Is that a personal belief, or a legal one? Because the US does recognize dual citizenship. Germany does too, in certain conditions.
Citizenship is one thing, but allegiance is another.
So if you believe they’re separate, I don’t see how believing you can only have one allegiance affects your citizenship(s).
I don’t believe you can owe allegiance to two different entities at the same time.
Maybe tell that to the German government, they just passed the dual nationality bill into law. And even before that it allowed both Israel and Iran to be dual German nationals.
FYI the citizenship law is changing later this month, you’ll be able to acquire US citizenship without losing your German one. www.rtpartner.de/…/doppelte-staatsbuergerschaft/
Another thing to consider is that US citizens must pay taxes on all foreign income and investments even if they leave to live outside the US. This is why the US has made renouncing US citizenship expensive and complicated, like even after you renounce it you still have to pay US taxes for 10 more years despite losing the rest of your citizenship privileges immediately.
bdonvrThere is a downside to US Citizenship for some though, as one of the only countries on earth yo demand you pay taxes on income earned outside the country
demand you pay taxes on income earned outside the country
Good thing the super wealthy don’t have legally-defined income to be taxed!
…No, wait. Not good. The opposite of good.
FEIE has an exclusion limit. But then again, this is about rich people.
True, but iirc also some banks outside the US refuse to open an account for you if you’re a US citizen due to some weird compliance rules that the US requires
Regrettable_incidentI think Portugal will basically sell you a passport for a €250,000 investment. I don’t know about Spain. I had Spanish residency years ago but moved away and let it slip, residency was pretty easy to get back then. I’d fuckin love to have an EU passport.
Portugal will give you a residence visa for a €500,000 investment but you have to actually spend time in Portugal and learn Portuguese if you want to become a citizen one day (5-6 years later).
They’re afraid of instability so they go to Greece?
steal_your_faceIf you have a Greek passport you can live anywhere in the eu
Bernie_SandalsYup, the same works for passports from other countries like Malta and Cyprus which iirc literally just sell citizenship.
How much? Asking for a friend.
Lemmy_2019Google golden passport. Portugal and Spain were at it but I think many countries have shut down the programme.
Do not know the current programs but usually need half a million euros and up. Portugal at one time I believe was as cheap as 160k euro (hence the popularity) but I believe that is over.
If you have to ask…
kateAFAIK Malta is $750k and they require you live there for a year
KallioapinaNot quite so simple, but makes things certainly easier.
"As an EU citizen, you have the right to move to any EU country to live, work, study, look for a job or retire.
You can stay in another EU country for up to 3 months without registering there but you may need to report your presence. The only requirement is to hold a valid national identity card or passport. If you want to stay longer than 3 months, you may need to register your residence.
In many EU countries, you need to carry an identity card or passport with you at all times. In these countries, you could be fined or temporarily detained if you leave your identity documents at home - but you cannot be forced to return to your home country for this reason alone. "
It absolutelly is as simple a travelling there and finding a place to stay.
I’ve moved, lived and worked in 3 foreign EU countries just like that.
Those rules about identity documents and registration apply also to the locals: some countries want people to be registered with the city hall of were they live and (supposedly, though in 2 decades I was never asked for it) carry identity papers (though if you have an identity card from your home country that’s valid all over the EU), others couldn’t care less.
You don’t need any kind of visa or even have a job: as long as you can support yourself (i.e. aren’t there to leech of social security) it’s all fine.
That residency status is all conditional in many ways:
As an EU citizen, you have the right to move to any EU country for a period of up to 3 months as long as you have a valid identity card or passport. If you want to settle in another EU country but you have no intention to take up any work or education there, you need to prove that you:
have sufficient resources for you and your family during the time you want to stay in your new country have comprehensive health insuranceReporting your presence and registering your residence
During the first 3 months of your stay in your new country, as an EU citizen, you cannot be required to apply for a residence document confirming your right to live there - although in some countries you may have to report your presence upon arrival.
After 3 months in your new country, you may be required to register your residence with the relevant authority (often the town hall or local police station), and to be issued with a registration certificate.
You will need a valid identity card or passport and:
proof of comprehensive health insurance proof you can support yourself without needing social assistance benefits: resources may come from any source, including from a third person.Can you be requested to leave or be deported?
You may live in the other EU country as long as you continue to meet the conditions for residence. If you no longer do so, the national authorities may require you to leave.
In exceptional cases, your host country can deport you on grounds of public policy or public security - but only if it can prove you represent a genuine, present and sufficiently serious threat affecting one of the fundamental interests of society.
The deportation decision or the request to leave must be given to you in writing. It must state all the reasons for your deportation and specify how you can appeal and by when. Permanent residence
If you have lived legally, meeting the conditions to stay in another EU country for a continuous period of 5 years, you automatically acquire the right of permanent residence there. This means that you can stay in the country as long as you want, you are entitled to be treated as a national of that country and you enjoy more protection against deportation. You can apply for a document certifying permanent residence.
Your continuity of residence is not affected by:
temporary absences (less than 6 months per year) longer absences for compulsory military service one absence of 12 consecutive months, for important reasons such as pregnancy and childbirth, serious illness, work, vocational training or a posting to another country.You can lose your right to permanent residence if you live outside the country for more than 2 consecutive years.
europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/…/index_en.htm#inac…
Going with a non chalant attitude of ‘lel I think I’m just gonna go live on the other side of EU now’ will land you in some trouble in most cases, what ever your personal alleged experience is.
Considering that I’ve personally went and lived in other EU countries 3 times by now, you’re way overcomplicating it.
Residence is only important for stuff like tax purposes (to avoid that people spend a week in a low tax country and claim they’re resident there for tax evasion purposes) and to avoid Health Tourism in countries with a national health service (were people might otherwise come over for a week just to get free/better treatment).
Your right to live in an EU nation as an EU citizen are not affected by “residence status” as they would be if you’re in a foreign country with a visa system because it’s not the same kind of residence - it’s for tax purposes not for employment or access to services as it would be in the US (or for a non-EU citizen in the EU).
That “residence document confirming your right to live there” is not required by anybody for providing you goods or services (they’re not even allowed to make anything for EU citizens conditional on “residence status”). You can get the document and then the 3 months apply, but it’s only ever needed when you’re filling taxes in the country you were living in before to prove to them you’re a resident elsewhere and hence will be paying taxes elsewhere (so, for example, when I left The Netherlands to go live in Britain I had to inform the authorities in The Netherlands that I was now resident in Britain for tax purposes, though I think I didn’t even need to provide them any document as these systems are integrated across the EU).
Health insurance is only for some countries. In my home country - Portugal - we have a National Health Service so any EU citizen over here who is not a Portuguse can just use it for free like everybody else. Again any such 3 months rules would only apply (if this country actually applied it) to try and avoid Health Tourism and if you’re an EU citizen just get a European Health Card (which is free) and you’re covered by your home country even whilst abroad for those first 3 months.
Deportation is for things like one having murdered somebody in the host country, serving a sentence and then getting deported. It really has to be this extreme and is incredibly rare to happen.
The general rule in the EU at a treaty level is that citizens from other EU countries cannot be discriminated against compared to citizens of the host country. Yeah, you found the details related to avoiding that people evade tax by gaming the residence for the purposes status, do Health Tourism or just come over and start living of Social Security.
You absolutelly can just get on a plane and go stay on an EU country pretty much unprepared and then you have 3 months to figure out if you want to stay and only by then do you need to do stuff like register (only for some countries) and get health insurance (again, only for some countries: those where health insurance is mandatory by law for everybody). Further, you can get a job there on day 1, since it’s you’re right and your residence status is irrelevant (and in fact plenty of freelancers working in a Services domain will just go to some country, do some work there, and then come back and that’s actually the intention the the EU treaties that they can: it’s the Freedom Of Movement required for the Freedom Of Trade part to apply to Services, not just Products).
I’ve done it like that twice, first when moving to the UK (where I then stayed for over a decade) and latter to Germany (where I left before the 3 months were up as I could to the work I was doing elsewhere with lower living costs).
I also have family members that do the Freelance thing of just going to another country in Europe, working there for a couple of months and then coming back.
Agree with you that people should be informed (which is why I knew when I went to Germany that I had 3 month to decide if I would stay or not and that if I did I would need to register and get Health Insurance), just disagree that is in any way a significant bump in the freedom to just go to another EU country to live and work there - the biggest bumps are cultural, linguistic and having the money to pay for a place to stay whilst you find your first job.
Just to add to this, and hammer it home, you actually get to vote in municipal elections the moment you registered your move.
And also for the European Parliament, were you are voting for delegates of the country you’re living in rather than from the country you’re a national of.
When living abroad I usually voted in both.
To be fair the same British who voted forn Brexit were already living in Spain (the awful people in the US and UK are related because of terrible media groups such as Fox and Sun).
seaQueueTo be fair Greece is pretty stable when you’re living on your mega yacht
☂️-they get to fuck us over then scram to somewhere not as fucked over.
ganksyWas going to say it but my version was less concise.
Oh, thanks for the reminder that I need to renew my passport in advance!
Ep1cFac3pa1mcreate instability
profit from said instability
run from said instability
If you have enough money you didn’t need a passport…
Speaking of instability, I’m actually baffled at Canadian government.
They didn’t try to attract US and UK companies to set up offices in Canada when many people in those countries were worried about Trump presidency and Brexit, respectively.
The Americans make it almost impossible to get citizenship so I’m not sure they were trying very hard.