tetris11

Books that are worse than the film (which was already bad?)

https://lemmy.ml/post/14345600

Books that are worse than the film (which was already bad?) - Lemmy

I’ve started reading Jumper by NameDoesNotMatter. I would like to formally apologise about all the harsh things I’ve ever spoken about that film. Fine, the cast is unlikeable and the action scenes are just fisticuffs in the air, but my god, in comparison to the teenage dreck that is the book, it’s a masterpiece. At least they tried to build a credible back story for the main character. In the book, he literally thinks everyone is out to sexually assault him (and somehow they seem to), he solves his problems by throwing money at it, instead of any actual creativity, and the author desperately tries to portray him as a mature-for-his-age adult, despite the fact that his first reaction to anything is crying followed by petty revenge. I’m just flicking through the pages, pausing at any plot bits, and then flicking on.

Apr 11, 2024 at 10:21pmWeb
Show threadtetris11Apr 11, 2024

I’ve started reading Jumper by NameDoesNotMatter. I would like to formally apologise about all the harsh things I’ve ever spoken about that film.

Fine, the cast is unlikeable and the action scenes are just fisticuffs in the air, but my god, in comparison to the teenage dreck that is the book, it’s a masterpiece. At least they tried to build a credible back story for the main character.

In the book, he literally thinks everyone is out to sexually assault him (and somehow they seem to), he solves his problems by throwing money at it, instead of any actual creativity, and the author desperately tries to portray him as a mature-for-his-age adult, despite the fact that his first reaction to anything is crying followed by petty revenge.

I’m just flicking through the pages, pausing at any plot bits, and then flicking on.

Show threadamniotic druidApr 11, 2024
Jaws comes to mind, but I wouldn’t call it a bad book, per your OP, its just that the film is a really good film. Books that are already bad don’t really get film adaptions.
Show threadxmunkApr 11, 2024
Starship Troopers was a far different story in each medium, but I think the movie is much more worthy of your time
Show threadtetris11Apr 11, 2024

+1 the movie is pure epic satire

I do like PKD as an author, I just never quite liked Starship Troopers the book, even though it’s got some nice Forever War vibes to it

Show threadoursApr 11, 2024
Heinlein not PKD.
Show threadsoliApr 12, 2024
Starship Troopers is Heinlein not Dick, and it’s fascist nonsense. Verhoeven was right to throw the book in the bin after two chapters and the movie rules.
Show threadshalafiApr 12, 2024
Heinlein experiments with loads of social structures and governments. Starship Troopers is the fascist example, not an example of all his work.
Show threadlemmyvoreApr 12, 2024
It’s been a while since I’ve read it but what was fascist about it? That only people who served got to vote? It was either/or iirc, you could not vote while in the military, only after you left, and if you did you could not return. Not exactly Nazi Germany.
Show threadlivusApr 12, 2024

Only ex military caste have power because they are the only people who can vote or hold public office.

There's this respected teacher guy in it who goes on about how violence solves everything, hero's main trajectory is for him to become really on board with that setup. Bunch of capital punishment, whipping etc.

Show threadGCanuckApr 12, 2024
I don’t think that’s entirely accurate. There were other paths to citizenship (iirc something akin to the peace corps and perhaps even business success? It’s been a while since I read it). But it wasn’t just military. It’s just that military was the easiest for most people.
Show threadlivusApr 12, 2024
Been a long time since I read it too but basically you had to do federal service and military was the most popular branch of that. But the book is mostly interested in military and high up characters talk about their military background etc. It's definitely fascist.
Show threadMoose Jolly HolcombApr 12, 2024
@solitaire I do think there is still an undercurrent in the book that maybe this isn't all okay. In that sense I always thought of the movie just surfacing that an making it a major theme. For me at least I've never seen them as opposing each other the way a lot of people do. But then again there's a lot of people out there that didn't realize the Empire in Star Wars is supposed to be facist, so there's a lot to be said for not being subtle.
Show threadlivusApr 12, 2024

Probably because Starship Troopers isn't PKD. It's Heinlein.

Kind of funny to imagine what it would have been like if it had been written by PKD. Johny Rico would have spent 1/3 of the book going through a divorce and the troopers would have all been on halucinogens.

Show threadtetris11Apr 12, 2024
oh whoops, I’ve made that mistake for X years then. Solves a mystery too - I hate Heinlein. Stranger in a strange land was dull.
Show threadlivusApr 12, 2024
Yeah I found it boring as well. But yeah that would explain it!
Show threadpearableApr 13, 2024
The only book of his I’d recommend is The moon is a Harsh Mistress. It’s quite Anarcho Capitalist in places but it’s an interesting revolution story regardless and has some interesting ideas in it
Show threadlemmyvoreApr 12, 2024
Funny thing, The Forever War is considered a direct reaction to Starship Troopers, the former as a pacifist take to the latter’s militarism.
Show threadtetris11Apr 12, 2024
Learn something new every day!
Show threadeightpixApr 13, 2024

The Forever War is a book that I’ll always point to as a gateway into reading sci-fi, not just watching it.

Such a good book.

Show threadVendetta9076Apr 11, 2024
The movie is great but I’m curious as to why you think its better than the book?
Show threadxmunkApr 11, 2024
I think the story and messaging of the movie is just amazing. We get to see the decline of Rico into a fascist mouthpiece, the casual disregard for human life and the way society warps us all. What starts out as perceived funny-ha-ha jokes in the opening act (the kid saying “I’ll serve too”) is retroactively depressing by the end of the film where Herr Commisar NPH shows how trivial the whole war is.
Show threadctkatzApr 12, 2024
would you like to know more?
Show threaddyathinkhesaurusApr 12, 2024
I’m doing my part
Show threadlemmyvoreApr 12, 2024

There’s also an anime adaptation in 6 episodes, Uchuu no Senshi, made by Bandai. It was directed by Tetsurou Amino (Iria, Macross 7) and the mechas were designed by Kazutaka Miyatake (designer of spaceships and power suits for Macross, Gundam and Battleship Yamato).

It’s considered an important milestone and a progenitor in the mecha genre. It has a very… anime approach to the adaptation, focusing mostly on the action and scifi with very little of the original drama or politics.

Show threadctkatzApr 16, 2024
there’s so much different I’d almost consider them related and not an adaptation.
Show threadlemmyvoreApr 16, 2024

It should be noted that the director explicitly meant the series as a tribute to Heinlein and it was dedicated to him when it launched (Heinlein had died during production) so there was a clear intent.

That being said it was a mini-series and there was only a limited amount of things they could cram into it. It’s a pretty complex book with a lot of detail.

There’s also the fact that a faithful adaptation would have been pretty hard to sell to the Japanese public. They have different sensibilities from the Western public and some of the symbolism would have been completely lost on them or appropriated to very different meanings.

A son who joins the marines and goes to war while regretting the rift with his parents is easy to understand in most markets. Add some cool SciFi imagery and action scenes, a touch of romantic interest, it’s sufficient for 6 episodes.

Show threadSacralPlexusApr 11, 2024
This may be unpopular but I was deeply disappointed in Shawshank Redemption when I read it. The movie is top tier.
Show threaddeweydecibelApr 12, 2024

The story was a novella King wrote in the early 80s for a short story collection, and it was his first real attempt at writing genres outside of horror. He’s gotten better at that over the years.

Even so, I wouldn’t say it’s bad, just that the movie blows it out of the water.

Show threadKnitWitApr 12, 2024
Movie is definitely top tier, I also love the novella. Different Seasons is what I point to when people dismiss stephen king. Shawshank Redemption, Stand By Me, and (while not on the level as the other two) Apt Pupil all in the same collection. But to each their own; pretty sure the final story is trash though haha.
Show threadoursApr 11, 2024

Hunt for Red October. The book is great and for it’s time had done amazing insight into modern naval warfare but the movie irons out a bunch of this which are a bit lame.

The Akula that kills itself with its own torpedo simply blows up because it abused its engine and another sunk when the titular sub rams into it.

The titular sub is later returned to the USSR.

The movie changes those and a few other things for a more exciting and satisfying outcome.

Show threadllamapocalypseApr 11, 2024
I don’t know about worse, but the Eragon books and movie are equally terrible.
Show threadTheMinionsApr 11, 2024

Eragon was my first foray into proper swords and sorcery fantasy after Harry Potter.

Are the books really that bad in your opinion? By no means do they reinvent the wheel, but I enjoyed the magic system and enjoyed the aspect of Dragon + Rider and that relationship we see between the two.

I haven’t read much other Fantasy besides LotR and Stormlight Archive, but I enjoy the Inheritance Cycle.

Show threadryathalApr 12, 2024
The books end that bad. The first couple were pretty good, but the ending was awful and ruined the whole series.
Show threadCysioApr 12, 2024
Also the buttmonkeying of the MC was a bit insufferable at times (also Saphira was an insufferable cockblock)
Show threadllamapocalypseApr 12, 2024
Take my opinion with a slight grain of salt because it’s been at least a decade since I read the book and a half of the series that I got through, but from what I recall the books just didn’t really have much to them - flat characters, awkward dialogue, and the actual prose itself was pretty bad. It was also boring enough that I just didn’t care about anything that was happening, and I’d read enough good fantasy by the time I read Eragon that its flaws were hard to look past - I know the dude was a teenager when he wrote it, but that doesn’t make the work magically better. Not trying to shit on anybody’s parade, but it just really wasn’t my thing.
Show threadZagorathApr 12, 2024
I enjoyed the magic system at first, but it kept expanding and expanding to basically undo its own limitations. I remember being disappointed with the last book, but being especially disappointed by how it ended. It felt like a very forced attempt to have the same bittersweet ending Tolkien gave us in Lord of the Rings, but unlike in that, it felt completely unearned and illogical.
Show thread5714Apr 12, 2024
I’m a bit sick of its narratives around sexuality and state, apart from that I really liked the books, but HATED the movie.
Show threadZagorathApr 12, 2024
Been a long time since I read them. What were the narratives around sexuakity and state?
Show thread5714Apr 12, 2024

Roran and Katrina have this weird martial ‘A man needs to protecc’ and tradwife dynamic.

Eragon is somewhat a minor while try-harding to flirt with Arya who is superhuman even to Eragon as a Rider. It is not out of character, but it really confused me when I read it as a teen.

Nasuada is a glorified dictator. Islanzadi, Hrothgar, Orik and Arya are glorified superhuman dictators. Human civilians have no agency and the great magic system even further cements that (Dwarfs have gods, Elves have the forest and their magic, while human magic doesn’t seem to aggregate to create a check on rulers).

Show threadTheMinionsApr 12, 2024
I just re-read them last year. What narrative are you talking about? Is it to do with Eragon not understanding that he’s a teenager and he shouldn’t hit on the elf princess who is literally 80 years older than him?
Show thread5714Apr 12, 2024

Arya is not a viable partner for him for at least another five to ten years, IMHO actually for like 20-30 years. Eragon is still a displaced peasant with power not seen for millenia and Arya is a monarch of a superhumanity, who was stuffed with knowledge and experience since birth while having a very different mind. Eragon might not even fully understand yet how relationships work and how truly different elves are.

Roran’s martial masculinity and Katrina’s clicheed submission, Sloan’s power trip etc.

Show threadsaigotApr 13, 2024
I think the whole point was that Eragon wasn’t right for Arya, I thought that was quite refreshing and a pretty important message for adolescents. It’s a pretty big deal, imo that they don’t end up together at the end, and eragon has to get over it. I think thats an original part of an overall cliche but enjoyable book. I do agree with roram and Katrina’s plot though.
Show threadKacarottApr 12, 2024
I’m not gonna go claiming that the Eragon books deserve a prize, but I loved them as a kid, and comparing them as equals to that movie is bordering on insanity.
Show threadRizzRustboltApr 13, 2024
The movie was good because it dropped all pretentiousness about where he was stealing his plot from.
Show threadRinApr 12, 2024

Granted the author was quite young when he started the series (15) to when the first book got published (18, first self published but republished by an established publisher a couple years later). He’s came out with a new series recently, but I don’t know how much better it is.

And while I’m not saying the books are anything great, they’re still a far cry from the movie imo.

Show threadDonjuanmeApr 11, 2024
Ready player one, though to be fair I didn’t finish either version. I feel like percentage-wise I made it further through the movie, but only because the movie is less than 2 hours long. I made it to the 2nd chapter of the 2nd part and couldn’t take the masturbatory prose any more. There’s no self insertion on one side of the scale, Mary sue-ing in the middle, and ready player one sits on the far side of the scale.
Show threadShialacApr 12, 2024
I read the whole book twice. Its bad. The first time was fun because I was just looking for the pop-culture references, but thats the only kinda good thing the book has. The second time I focused more on the story and the characters and its just bad. There are no likeable characters, but you are supposed to like the main protagonist who is an antisocial creep. The setting makes no sense and the plot is just there to move to another place to show off more references stacked onto each other
Show threaddeweydecibelApr 12, 2024

I was going to say, Ready Player One is not a great movie, but it does at least have Spielberg at the helm, and while late-career Spielberg is a shadow of his former self, the movie is at least directed competently and interesting enough visually. Not least of all because you can actually see and enjoy all the various IP in action, rather than just have them name dropped like in the book.

But even at its worst, the movie is a tolerable popcorn flick.

Because the book is just terrible. It’s an absolute slog, a lot of the dialogue is embarrassing, the prose is uninspired, it’s overloaded with explanations of UIs and unnecessary, long winded ramblings about the various pop culture references. The movie at least has the benefit of just putting a thing on the screen, the book has to describe all of this shit, and it’s tediously done.

Show threadryathalApr 12, 2024
The movie is so much better than the book because it drops a lot of cringe that the book has.
Show threadRizzRustboltApr 13, 2024
Ready Player One is the Skeet Ulrich of Snow Crash ripoffs.
Show threadteawrecksApr 12, 2024

Yeah, the book felt like I was being beaten over the head with pop culture references…but then you open up VR Chat…

I feel like there was value in the predictions RPO was making, particularly at the time it came out, just before Facebook became Meta and basically made it their playbook. If the world ever gets so shitty that the friction of putting on a VR headset actually becomes preferable to doing literally anything else, I think it’s a pretty believable future.

Show threadkylie_kraftApr 11, 2024
the Sookie Stackhouse novels vs. True Blood. the show got dumb but the books go off in so many more ridiculous directions. I quit watching the show after 3 seasons because the repetitive sex/violence juxtaposition got to be boring, but I still have to recognize that the show writers at least had restraint. also, Charlaine Harris writes like my foot
Show threadpulaskiwasrightApr 12, 2024
In the book, I remember that sookie says that someone “had her engine running like the pace car at the indie 500”or something like it.
Show threadshuzukoApr 12, 2024
My mom was into True Blood for a little bit when it first came out, probably because she was trying to fill a Buffy-shaped hole in her entertainment and TB was close enough, lol. She bought me the first novel for Christmas one year and I very quickly donated it, it was so fucking bad. She asked me if she could borrow it, got mad when I told her I’d donated it already, and then sad when I told her it would ruin her enjoyment of the show by being complete and utter trash xD
Show threadspittingimageApr 12, 2024

Babylon AD (the book is called Babylon Babies). I thought it was bad editing that made the end of the movie confusing. No. Turns out they took the actual ending of the book, toned it the fuck down and filmed it.

Not sure they could have filmed the part where the hyper-evolved babies take their comatose mother’s consciousness, stuff it in an experimental space station and launch it towards the galaxy at 10% of light speed.

Show threadTeryVenenoApr 12, 2024
Harry Potter, the movies are at least wizards do wizard stuff even if the world is pretty boring to me. The books on the other hand, are just straight up strange and mean. Reading them as kid they just sucked, I have no clue why they are so popular outside of the movies.
Show threadryathalApr 12, 2024
Harry Potter has some issues, but for children’s fiction it’s better than a lot of series.
Show threadTeryVenenoApr 12, 2024
I’d have to disagree with that, one of the main reasons I didn’t read Harry Potter as kid was because there was simply better fiction. That and also easy access to manga in the west had started becoming bigger.
Show threadKacarottApr 12, 2024
What do you mean by strange and mean?
Show threadTeryVenenoApr 12, 2024
There’s a lot of moments where the characters will laugh at or make fun of someone for something to a degree I would never do irl, or the slave bit with hermione. The characters also just don’t evolve at all. Reading Harry Potter just gave me a fish out of water feeling, there were better magic books with characters that actually grew and changed.