humbletightbandWhy do people around me tend to increase their responsibility load (i.e. have children, become a manager, do charity, etc.) while I (30M) try to avoid it as much as I can?
I am the same and find that life is enough for me as it is. I’m also on the spectrum so it’s easier to not burden myself unnecessarily.
remoteloveMy ADHD plays a huge part in the opposite direction. I have had hundreds of different hobbies or interests. Each hold my attention for a while and then I rotate to the next.
What I have learned to do is make hobbies or projects interrelated and each supports the next. CAD work supports my 3D printing, which supports all the rest, as an example. Tools purchased need to have multiple uses and other supplies the same. Essentially, I have constructed a huge feedback loop for my natural tendency to bounce around.
While that stuff keeps me busy, I am learning to simplify the rest of my life, so that is nice.
Man, I wish I had heard this decades ago. Most of my hobbies are entirely unconnected except building guitars then playing them. I have a garage full of woodworking stuff that’s only for that, a garage full of tools for working on motorcycles that don’t overlap, a bunch of tools for cooking outdoors, a room full of entirely unconnected gear for playing pool, rock climbing, a shelf full of tabletop games, gardening equipment, fishing gear, and equipment to make a beverage that is illegal for me to make at both the federal and state level.
You have a good system.
ThirdWorldOrderThose sound like some pretty cool hobbies tbh.
They’re all a lot of fun. The only ones I have kept up with long term are building and playing guitars and working on motorcycles. The rest were passing fancies.
Can you give some more examples please?
Not op, but I love making interesting furniture and light fixtures. It’s a combination of wood working, pretty lights, microcontrollers, open source projects, and stuff that normies fucking love, like epoxy desks. I always have a handful of projects at various states of completion and whenever I get bored of one I bounce to another until I finish and then just pick something from my yuge list of stuff I wanna build and keep going.
Wow. I think you just resolved some minor trauma for me. My mother used to berate (and sometimes beat) me for “never finishing things”, as in I’d be really interested in something and then lost interest. It drove her up the wall, but since I was a kid all I heard was “stop being interested in everything”.
I got dx’d with ADHD at 35. Slowly, and thanks to comments like yours, I’m making sense of my brain and learning to be kind to myself
I was diagnosed early, but didn’t start treatment until my 30’s. Basically, I had some really unfounded perceptions of the condition and how amphetamines worked. Whoo boy, was I wrong!
But yeah, it’s hard not to use the condition as a crutch or an excuse. It’s a legitimate condition, no doubt, but the trick is trying to learn ways to leverage it as a positive. (TBH, this only works in some cases, not all.)
The biggest challenge for me is trying to communicate how I think and operate to others. Processes that work for normal humans simply do not work for me. This poses some massive challenges in my career, for sure. By the same token, the way I think gives me unique advantages in problem solving. (I am in IT Security by trade where thinking differently is almost a requirement.)
Exactly! Compared to what neurotypical people are capable of, I truly do feel disabled in some ways. However, as long as I can continue to support myself and my partner until we both die, I’ll be good without all the extra bullshit and responsibilities.
I had a buddy, and we talked in great detail about this. I chase challenges, and am always looking for the next big puzzle to muddle my way through. He chased freedom. He just wanted to be who he was and spend his time how he wanted.
My point is people are motivated by different things. Find your thing and pursue it. Don’t worry what anyone else is doing. You don’t answer to them, and they’re not any happier than you.
Living your authenticity is fulfilling.
The caveat is don’t conflate freedom/motivation with being a dick. Live the life that you want to live, but if that involves disparaging certain demographics for ethically and/or morally wrong reasons, then maybe live a better life than the one you really want to live. This doesn’t apply to most people, but there are some out there that should read it and take it to heart.
Yeah I’m a bit of both. When I’m working, I always want the next challenge. When I’m at home, I’m quite content to just cease to exist
They aren’t thinking of it in terms of increasing responsibility. That is the cost of the decisions they are making, but it’s not the benefit. Each of the things you mentioned have clear benefits (pay raise, biological drive, altruism). They are simply making decisions about when the benefits outweigh the costs.
I became a manager because I worked with shitty managers who sit on their ass and promote their friends. I wanted to change that.
I take on harder projects than my peers because I can handle it. It’s easier for me to deal with the stress, than give it to a teammate who would absolutely flounder and lose 4 weekends trying to solve it.
I became a parent because I worked in the school system and taught kids without good families. I used to stay after school just to give these kids a positive influence before they get sent back to their shitty home.
I absolutely do not think about the stress of the added work, but instead focus on the results of my actions (or the results if I don’t do it).
I became a parent because I worked in the school system and taught kids without good families. I used to stay after school just to give these kids a positive influence before they get sent back to their shitty home.
Don’t take this as criticism, just trying to understand: What’s the logic here? As a teacher without kids (for now), I feel like I’d have more to give to help my pupils if I don’t have kids of my own.
cheesymoonshadowRegardless, thank you both for the work that you do.
Thanks for doing what you do.
And I can see the confusion. I grew up in the ghetto, I also wasn’t raised in a good environment. I have children and I’m in the process of adopting as well.
The only reason a lot of people chase the career side is the money. That’s why there’s a lot of shit managers shirking responsibility. They get up high enough to live comfortably and flip into people who do as little as possible. Drives me bonkers since I seem to be stuck with this desire for things to be efficient that I can’t turn off and these people drag everything down
Parenting is usually an accident or a pressure trap from family/society/religion. Also a tad of biological drive overriding sense.
Charity though. That can be a hobby that is quite rewarding. It’s also something you can walk away from and back into pretty easily depending on what you do so it’s low stress if you want it to be. It takes up time and turns off the sensation you aren’t doing anything. I tend towards physical labor kinds of charity like park cleanups and river dredges and mulching playgrounds and stuff since it’s mostly just a different kind of exercise
I could see the career side for the fulfillment - I left a higher paying job for a lower paying one but work more hours because I’m genuinely more mentally challenged and I find that enjoyable.
I have no desire to go into management however.
jeffwIt’s easy to say: “other people do things because of pressure, I do things because I want to.” But that kinda oversimplifies free will, power dynamics, and other similar concepts. Why is charity rewarding to you? Because someone gave you a pat on the back? Couldn’t we boil it all down to extrinsic motivators? Some people might not feel good “giving away” their time to charity. You don’t feel good having kids. It’s all perspective.
Re the actual topic on why take on more responsibility. My argument is I pick charity work that doesn’t really equate to responsibility. I’m there when I’m there and I’m not when I’m not. It’s not like kids where once you turn it on, turning it off is probably a crime, or work where dialing back after you moved up is fucking someone over
ThavronParenting is usually an accident or a pressure trap from family/society/religion. Also a tad of biological drive overriding sense.
That is a very soured view imo.
Then explain declining birth rates in younger generations without talking about financial pressures outweighing societal, familial, and religious pressures.
People are more comfortable having condom conversations now. I don’t think it’s the biggest reason, but it does make a difference
So my original point that many children are accidents then?
I don’t consider that an accident, lol. A condom breaking or not functioning normally is an accident. Not using one because you don’t want to discuss it is a choice.
Uranium3006pretty much. capitalism is incompatible with human biology and the continued existence of the human race, and I didn't even mention the environment yet
Annoyed_🦀 without talking about financial pressures
So you just wanna nitpick the answer without considering some people want kids without societal pressure but can’t because of financial pressure.
Ok.
There as a time when you were very young that tying your shoes was impossible for you. For a time, your parents tied your shoes for you. Then you learned how, with difficulty, to do it yourself. Within a short time you mastered it and you don’t even think about it now. You simply benefit from having tied shoes without having to ask anyone. Somewhere out there is a person that doesn’t know how to tie their own shoes asking why people learned to do so for themselves, where you have that answer for yourself.
Others around you see benefits to raising children, the challenge and pay of rising in job role, or the noble contribution of doing charity work bettering others/society. For you, you don’t see any of the benefits to yourself that come from those thing. Yet those other people learned to tie their shoes themselves too. You are like them in that they had the desire to better themselves in that small way because you all saw a benefit.
It sounds like the question before you is to examine your life, decide if there is anything you want in it that you don’t have, and work a path to getting that. The one further thing I would recommend is don’t just look at your life as it is now at age 30. Imagine your life at 35,40, 50, 65, and 80. With the versions of yourself at those ages be satisfied with the person you are today with what you know and have? Will you, at some distant year, be sad that you passed on an opportunity to have something else in your life you don’t have today? If so, its up to you, today, to make the choices that will eventually make you into the person you want to be for that distant age.
Only you can answer this question and there is no wrong answer as long as you are true to yourself and have properly explored yourself and the world to properly answer this question.
Pretty sure he’s asking for a reason. The reason you learn to tie your shoes are obvious; time savings and independence.
The reason you learn to tie your shoes are obvious; time savings and independence.
For some the reasons to have children, do charity work, or climb the corporate ladder are obvious.
Pretty sure he’s asking for a reason.
The reason is: that person wants that thing and the amount of work to do it is worth the reward, just like tying shoes.
Thanks
Everyone values different things. Personally, I’m not quite ready for kids (even though I’m past the age where my parents had kids and some of my friends/colleagues my age have kids, I’m about your age), but I’m ready to take on more at work. I find it rewarding and I can make more money. And although money doesn’t create happiness, it buys some dope shit. And not advancing at work just gets boring and repetitive. Ig it’s like that urban legend about sharks needing to swim…
Money doesn’t create happiness, but it definitely sets up an environment for it to thrive.
Different people find joys in different things (some people get more out of charity than they put in)… and different people have a different capacity for stress and energy.
The ability to “strive” is a learned skill that needs to be honed over years. It’s not really natural to most people — it’s easy to fall into a low-energy state and want to stay there because it’s comfortable. It takes practice and energy putting yourself out there and putting an effort into making more of your life.
If you’re happy with who you are and what you’re doing, then I’m not going to neg on your life. But are you going to spend the next ~50 years just gliding along, and not creating or building any value for yourself in this world (and that doesn’t have to be monetary value — building a family, and building up your community through volunteer works build value as well)? When you’re in the twilight of your life, do you want to look back and find you did nothing of significance with your life?
Maybe that doesn’t bother you. That’s fine. Just so long as 15 years from now you’re not some bitter middle-aged person complaining about people in the upper-middle class who get to do things you don’t get to do and who have more money and nice things that you do.
But none of that would be for me. So I put in the work, learned how to strive for the life I wanted, and got a graduate degree, built a beautiful family, got that management job (and the pay that goes with it), and spend my spare time volunteering (currently) with three different organizations. It’s a busy life and take a lot of time and energy — but it allows me to have people around me who love me, with the money to do and own nice things together, and to give back to my community to make it a better place. And when my time eventually comes, I’ll have hopefully left this world a little better off for the effort.
Meh. Your value as a human isn’t tied to your accomplishments (be it having a family or getting a high paid job) or productivity.
This whole thing of “striving as a honed skill” sounds like hustling culture and capitalist brainwashing. In fact, I would say it takes more skill to actually be content with your life and not feel the constant need to strive to be someone better or do something more.
You seem to think that unless you’ve done something, you’re worthless.
It seems that according to your view, a homeless person without a family is completely worthless.
That’s a pretty unfair characterization. He called out multiple times how it’s fine for the other guy if that’s what he wants, but that it’s not his own specific wants. And his central thesis is fine: coasting is fine as long as you’re going to be ok with where you coast to. If you want to be somewhere else then coasting is not fine - but it’s up to you where you want to go.
I pretty specifically called out striving to create things like family or helping improve your community through volunteer works — which isn’t “capitalism” at all.
Each of us can always be someone better and do something more. That isn’t a bad thing.
You end by trying to put words in my mouth. I never said anything about the worth of anyone over anyone else. Striving for the betterment of oneself, one’s loved ones, and one’s community is a good thing — but the antithesis of that isn’t that doing none of those things makes you worthless. That’s something you came up with, not me.
Maybe that doesn’t bother you. That’s fine. Just so long as 15 years from now you’re not some bitter middle-aged person complaining about people in the upper-middle class who get to do things you don’t get to do and who have more money and nice things that you do.
Statistically speaking, single people with no kids usually have more disposable income.
Doing charity doesn’t require increased responsibility. That was an unexpected item on your list.
Note that many pregnancies are unplanned. So you can frame it as a one-off choice, but often the reality is that the choice is a reaction to reality. Having a kid or having an abortion, either of those requires responsibility of some kind. In other words, the responsibility was inevitable.
Finally, depending where you live and how wealthy you are, you might want to plan for retirement. Failure to do could make your life highly stressful in thirty-five years. Taking small actions now is actually a stress reliever for many people. In other words, some actions that increase responsibility actually make life more enjoyable even in the short run and certainly in the medium run.
Doing charity doesn’t require increased responsibility.
In my experience, it does. I used to do some charity work for Ukrainian refugees: delivering medicine, helping with warehousing, buying suitcases for those who want to go further. That’s not an easy one, and it has hella pressure on you, basically because these people do not have a lot of people who would help them.
Indeed. You’ve given us an example showing that charity works could involve increased responsibility, but certainly not that it is required.
Can you mention some kinds of charity that dont involve increased responsibility? I would like to help people more but don’t feel I have room in my life for more responsibility rn
Donations are the most obvious and probably the most helpful in established communities
As long as you feel you want to avoid responsibilities, please do so in a responsible way. Use condoms every time, and don’t get involved with a person who wants children. Be a good support-player at work so your manager doesn’t have to be a bitch (they still might, in which case support your coworkers). And contribute in low-effort ways like donating an occasional pint of blood if you’re eligible, or offering to put someone else’s cart away at the grocery store. Just being a decent person is enough.
You may be a perfectionist who’s so afraid of failure that it currently (rationally or irrationally) outweighs the motivation to succeed by a significant margin. You’d like to do some bigger things in life but you self-sabotage by distracting yourself because the thought of actually doing things is way too scary / stressful.
themoonisacheeseArmchair therapist much? To me the examples given in the post specifically aren’t about success, they’re about the things people that do not directly count as success but that do require you to devote at least part of your life to it.
Mate, I’d definitely prefer loose leaf tea but can’t be arsed with the extra hassle
There are dozens of us
Dozens!
I think so anyway. I haven’t checked.
Because they’re lost or miserable or searching for purpose and keep trying to find it in external things like career advancement or kids or partners or something.
I dunno man. Would be too much hassle for me. I’m in my 30s and struggle not falling into depression every time I get friend zoned, which happens all the time. Dating sucks. I just want to be loved. Having children, being a manager (especially in my field / NGO where politics is a big part of the job) is just way too stressful.
I'm a greasy overweight diesel tech. Stop saying friend zone. That is an easy way to never get with someone. Get a hobby that you like and learn to talk about it without being a snob.
I won’t. I have hobbies. I have hobbies I’m passionate about. If it doesn’t click for other people but it does for me but they still don’t have a problem with being friends what else should it be called other than friend zone?
Maybe I’m wrong but I think the idea of “friend zone” implies romantic rejection, whereas being actual friends is just a platonic relationship with no romantic aspects. Friend zone is like emotional attachment that is getting in the way of a genuine friendship because of that disparity. It sounds immature to say it if you think of it that way. It’s reminiscent of the incels on 4chan for a lot of people too, so that doesn’t help. Maybe that will clarify why some people think it’s cringey to say ‘friend zoned’?
That actually explains it quite good. Thanks!
Thanks for reading, I’ve seen this happen in different places now. Some communities use it like you intended, others use it as derogatory. Language be gettin harder by the day