Electric cars are not actually zero-emission vehicles. “Even if all our vehicles eventually become powered by electricity instead of fossil fuels, we will still have harmful pollution from vehicles because of tyre wear.”

It is important to reduce the amount we drive, not just swap in "green" technologies for our existing habits. EVs take enormous resources to produce, electricity may not always be green, tires release pollution, and people are still killed in crashes.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/feb/23/health-impact-tyre-particles-increasing-concern-air-pollution

Health impact of tyre particles causing ‘increasing concern’, say scientists

Far more tiny particles now come from tyres than are emitted from exhausts but new tyre designs may help

The Guardian
@mbonsma I'd put the people being killed up a bit further....
@geonz to be honest that's the first and most important reason I'm in this game, but somehow "let's kill fewer people with cars" doesn't seem to persuade everyone 😣
@mbonsma You're right. And even if somebody else somehow thinks EVs are clean but still acknowledges the climate crisis, then getting rid of currently existing ICE and stopping production of new ones still requires rapidly reducing car use.
Everyone except climate deniers should be trying to transition society away from cars.
@mbonsma I am in full agreement with your point. Adding to it, EV's have one other, not often discussed positive downstream effects of requiring so many batteries/mosfets that thanks to economies of scale they become so cheap that we now have ebikes and stationary battery storage that is incredibly cheap.
@mbonsma to the point where the on high quality ebikes the battery, motor and controller are cheapest parts.

@mbonsma

There is also the pollution footprint of making a new car. This externality is neutral with respect to a gas-powered vehicle but significant when compared to alternatives such as bikes or train coaches with much longer lifespans.

@mbonsma
Strip malls have to go, for sure. These small clusters of businesses spread up & down roads & highways are a big reason why people can't rely on buses.
@mbonsma Not to mention brake dust.
@mbonsma having personally swept the bits of disintegrating roadway out of 60-some miles of SW Portland's bike lanes in the past week, the asphalt dust is going to be there even if they come up with green tires. And the noise of stroads interferes with birds singing to each other for a large area on both sides. This model will never be green.

@enobacon @mbonsma If only someone came up with lighter vehicles that would damage roads less, and that could move people just as fast, maybe on two wheels instead of four and narrower so the existing travel lanes could have their capacity increased. 🤔

(Also, mass transit whenever possible.)

@tk @mbonsma as the owner of a high-occupancy bicycle myself, I would like to be paid what the govt would have spent if I had chosen to drive, especially if I have to elbow my way past lines of car traffic stopped at a red light.

@mbonsma

I understand your point about tires causing pollution. However, getting my nation to reduce its carbon footprint by going electric sorta needs to come first in the process. There are still too many people who don't believe in global climate change. Just saying.

@mbonsma There is also co2 of each kWh charged and co2 consumed.

@mbonsma AND the generation of the electricity to charge them.

And the mining of necessary materials to make the bateries.

And the recycling of the ~5yr-life-cycle batteries.

EVs might be a option for the future, but battery bank based EVs certainly are NOT it.

@mbonsma Yes, far better we all stay inside, wrapped in cotton wool, and starve to death because we can't get anywhere due to not using a car, and all the local village shops were closed because they were "unprofitable".
#RuralEngland
@mbonsma they both need to happen. Ultimately, the goal needs to be to get people to travel as little as possible. But in the meantime, BEV are still an improvement on the status quo
@mbonsma It's important to know some of the other hazards of automobiles, but this particular tactic seems disingenuous. You know people usually mean Carbon emissions/global warming.

@mbonsma

I don't like cars. Not even small cars. Not even green cars. Especially not those monster trucks you see everywhere, looking it's going to smoosh over a row of junker cars in a dirt stadium.

@mbonsma Yeah most folks for and against ICE think that's it. Every part of the process that ends in a new tire is super bad for the environment. From the initial manufacturing process, to the use of the product and then the "renewing" of the product... it's all awful.

@mbonsma I love my EV

I try to drive as little as possible. I take the train to & from work. I walk downtown. When I do drive, I try to carpool.

Not everyone, especially in the rural US, has the same opportunities and privileges. But collectively as a society we have to end our addiction to cars. We need pedestrian and transit friendly infrastructure.

@mbonsma , unfortunately sounds like an ad by petrochemicals.
Overall conventional cars are still way worse than e-vehicles.
Also people really concerned ie about tire pollution could put a link with a post for least polluting tires otherwise it's just a whinging session.
E-vehicles = less noisy than conventional ones, e-motors produce ozone when running and don't produce 1kg of CO² every 3km like fossil fuel driven ones plus a lot of many cars are exchanged for ebikes that are better still.
ENSO - The Earthshot Prize

ENSO creates tyres specially designed for electric vehicles that are more sustainable and reduce harmful tyre pollution, leading to cleaner air for us all.

The Earthshot Prize
@mbonsma Bike tires also have tire wear and release the same pollution.
@mbonsma Current cars also have tires, that pollution is not a reason against EVs. Fuel exhausts create direct pollution effects (asthma etc), but also indirect unhealthy pollution (forest fires, floods, etc). Yes, lifecycle analysis is important, but IMO a partial solution is better than doing nothing waiting for the perfect.

@mbonsma one of the biggest issues with electric vehicle brakes is after a while they seize up stop working because they are not used.
On an EV mechanical brakes only engage under emergency braking and sometimes not even then . This also means that acceleration and braking are more gentle so there is less tyre wear.

This sudden concern with tyre and brake pollution is nothing more than a last-ditch attempt by the fossil fuel lobby to prevent people buying electric vehicles.

@mbonsma As mentioned--we also can't forget that by no means is all that electricity being produced in a sustainable way, and as demand for electricity soars, there isn't always even enough of it being produced, never mind sustainably. 'Make everything in the world electric!' they say, where's it all coming from? (technologies may exist but are not in place..)