The Picard ManeuverOr maybe introduce them to Little Bobby Tables
ButtCheekOnAStickWhile you’re adding commas, learn how apostrophes work.
I use it to signify “here come’s an S!”
Don’st.
I u’se it to 'signify “here come’s an 'S!”*
Dave Barry FTW!
That’s not an apostrophe, it’s a comma floating away.
S-H-comma to the top-Dynasty
Did you hear about the Pluto?
You mean apostrophe’s.
samus12345And it’s not even consistent. Why is it “comma’s,” but not “password’s”?
Maybe they’re Dutch, there it’s only done for words that end in a vowel. Probably not though.
Interesting, didn’t know that!
The Dutch are definitely trying to crash map-rendering software with 's-Hertogenbosch
Dr. BobI think it’s a Greek root so surely it’s apostrophedes.
While on the topic, this isn’t how passwords work in systems.
Passwords are stored as one way hashes. So it’s cryptoed only in one direction, it’s lossy, and can’t be recovered back to the original password.
When you log on, your cleartext PW is hashed in ephemeral memory/storage and then the cleartext password is thrown away.
That hash is compared to the hash in the DB. If the hash matches, then you have access. If it doesn’t, then your PW is incorrect.
It’s now how passwords work in good systems
And there are plenty of bad systems, especially in this fail fast BS paradigm clueless idiots like to use. We know because they keep getting hacked (looking at you, lastpass!)
Yes, I’m a waterfall guy - get off my lawn!
Sure, but the comic isn’t talking about legit password usage systems. It’s talking about how a comma could break the csv formatting of a csv file that came from a data breach and dump.
That’s still not how it would work.
Ok, assuming that we’re talking about, like you say, a system that gets a breach which is storing PWs in clear text/plain text, instead of encrypting it, which is a big if as those kinds of systems are either amateur/homebrew, or extinct at this point, but I digress. Let’s say it’s there.
The attacker would run a sanitization script out of the SQL table that would shift those problem characters into proxy characters, or correct them if it’s going to cause a problem. One or two passwords lost to correct for thousands isn’t a big deal. The result of trying to put some sort of SQL Injection or CSV formatting bug into your password, hoping it was stored as plaintext, and the attacker wouldn’t be sanitizing the common formatting issues, is just silly.
Plus, it’s not like they’re only exporting it once. They’ve usually copied the DB down locally, so they’ll see the formatting is skewed when parsing the CSV, and correct it on the next export out.
I’m all for the humor here, I was just calling out that nothing about the ideas the OP suggested would work in real life SecOps scenarios.
Souce: Am engineer at large corporation. Deal with scenarios and systems like this all the time.
cryptoed Unless you were looking for a sick rhyme for tiptoed, try encrypted.
Encryption is inherently reversible though. Hashing is the most accurate term to describe it
You are correct.
No, I mean Crypto libraries.
The field of science and engineering that has the algorithms and libraries we would need to use to perform a proper one way encrypted hash, is going to be found in a cryoptographic library.
I suspect you’re thinking of Crypto in how it’s applied colloquially in the world today with a cryptographically signed linked-list ledger. There’s a whole world of cryptography that’s in use. Encryption is just one sub-function in that world.
danEven if it’s hashed, some systems still use unsalted MD5 which is effectively just as bad as plain text.
I don’t understand it. Argon2id has been around for nearly 10 years at this point, scrypt for 15, PBKDF2 for 20 and bcrypt for 25. It’s not hard.
PantherinaCan you add a “TAB” into a password?
\t is your best shot. For good measure, you’ll also want to add double quotes (can be used to escape commas in CSVs), double double quotes, back slashes, and |s, just to mess with anyone trying to sanitize a CSV with your password in it.
Yes, char(9) is the SQL string for it.
However most modern password attributes are blocking this from SQL injections where a playfully named user “Drop Table” does not cause any harm
Of course. In Windows you can hold Alt and type 0 0 9 before releasing the Alt key.
Similar with other control characters, although NULL might be harder to type yet more likely to break things.
SHY is good if you’d like a character which can’t be seen without using unicode’s hidden characters.
rustydrdFrom many years of experience on the interwebs, I can recommend this password:
NUL,\t.;TAB\n\x07^C
It’s very secure and works most of the time. I use it for everything.
Just changed my password to this, thanks!
Transporter Room 3You clearly don’t use this one, don’t you know lemmy instances automatically censor your ********?
konaltCensor your what? Your ********?
What’s all the commotion? I’m pretty sure you can say ********, no?
Oh cool - how does it know?
Hunter2
Yeah, mine is removed.
I dunno. If I was the asshole running the script that broke at whatever line your user was in. I’d take special care to fuck with you right back. ;)
Herr WolandJust added this to my brute force dictionary thank you 👌
Can you take it out again? I still want to use this. Thanks.
No you don’t. I checked ;)
What’s it say? All I see is *******************.
WaldowalThe CSV specification (RFC-4180) is pretty clear. If a value contains commas, you wrap it in double quotes. If the value contains double quotes, you double each double quote to indicate its part of the value and not the end of the value.
A properly formatted CSV should have no problems from Skeletor!
There’s no formal spec for CSV. The RFC you mentioned describes the most common behaviour observed in many implementations, but it’s not a spec itself, as mentioned on the second page:
While there are various specifications and implementations for the CSV format (for ex. [4], [5], [6] and [7]), there is no formal specification in existence, which allows for a wide variety of interpretations of CSV files. This section documents the format that seems to be followed by most implementations:
Also, my understanding is that double quotes are only used for strings. Commas can appear outside of strings, for example in numbers in countries that use them as a decimal point. That’s actually why many implementations use semicolons or tabs as the separator.
So
'"\tpassword\tHi kind reminder password hashes.
For all no-tech-people: what? Please explain
If you’re a company, you should save your users’ passwords as “hashes” which is like a scrambled up version, so if your data gets stolen the hackers will have to unscramble all the passwords which takes a long time. Some naughty companies don’t do this and save their passwords as plain text. The person above is presumably talking to developers to remind them not to be naughty
For the benefit of the person above you, thats not to say that hashed passwords are unbreakable, because hackers can build a thing called a rainbow rmtable where they hash a bunch of known passwords, words, and phrases, and then can compare their rainbow table agains a stolen hash to learn what the starting value might have been. Thats why a complex password is very useful
Not much of an Issue thanks to salting
Only if you dont make the salting or hashing wrong which happens far to often
MeatPilotThis terminology is making me hungry
oce 🐆Tl;dr: parseley, hash browns and salt is good.
I’m saying that password dumps are usually hashed passwords anyway, so there won’t be commas just base 64.
Funny, but csv values are quote encapsulated and special character escaped.
zaphodCSV doesn’t require it and I’ve seen plenty of examples of unquoted CSV cells. Hell I’ve created my fair share while throwing together ad hoc datasets. The idea that some of these dumps might be made by folks who are too careless to properly quote and escape their CSV data isn’t hard to believe at all.
A classic example of naive CSV encoding is joining a bunch of floats with commas while using a locale that has a comma for a decimal point.
I had a dota2 bug where all of the maps particle effects would spawn in the middle. Yep, a locale dot/comma thing.
Oh, so it’s like USB cords. Or basically any other technology standard.
Someone never disappoints by linking this one.