TokenBoomerAaron Bushnell's Facebook Reveals Final Message Before Self-Immolation
itslilithThe video shows one officer pointing a gun at Bushnell, while others extinguished the flames. The MPD spokesperson did not confirm if that officer worked for the police department, but said the matter is under investigation.
Okay wtf is that supposed to mean? Who else should the pig be working for?
I don’t know why they say suicide is illegal in the US, all you have to do is call the cops and they’ll send someone to help up finish the job.
Then it’s extra-legal!
They don’t want to let a perfectly good practicing target go to waste.
Gotta wait for a man to turn black before you shoot him without cause
oof, nice catch
Without cause? He came right at them! Backwards! It was so scary!
Damn, that’s bleak.
Could be feds, could be military police.
Not defending the practice, but at least in North America, it’s relatively common for cops to get hired to work security by private companies. It’s usually called Paid Duty and those are the cops you see who seem to be working security guard like details at retail shops and sports games etc. They are still technically working for the police department in that situation though I believe.
livus@masterspace yikes that sounds like all kinds of conflict of interest.
It also sounds like an extreme form of policing for the rich only.
Yup, hence me wanting to make it very clear that I was not defending the practice.
@masterspace yeah I can see that. It's basically taking people who were trained at public expense (and who are supposed to uphold public interests) and then having them selectively police in the private sector (and private interests) in exchange for that sector subsidising their salaries.
Has it been associated with police homicides at all, do you know?
There are dozens of police agencies in just a couple blocks of that area. And they can all dress similarly. MPD is for the entire district, but each government agency can have their own police.
(don’t pay any attention to the similarities to the Roman Empire and its multitude of “security” organizations)
The embassy?
Then he’d be a security guard, not an officer, no?
I thought the name wouldnt be released until 24 hours after the final notice was delivered to his kin?
The guy streamed a video to his Facebook. Want hard for journalists to track down.
Well I don’t think it’s a resource or methodology issue, rather more of a glaring ethical one.
Journalistic ethics?
Huh.
There could be 100,000 journalists with ethics. All it takes is one without.
The dead person themselves wanted their death to be reported. It feels like worse ethics to deny them their voice in their final act.
But anyway, I saw posts yesterday with the video that had received consent from the family to release it as long as his death itself was blurred. They may not understand his act, but they believe he deserves to be seen.
The department is working with the Secret Service and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives to investigate the incident, the spokesperson added.
Seems pretty self-explanatory. What is there to investigate?
I will never understand this kind of “protest,” because it presumes that you have value to the people you are protesting. Israel certainly doesn’t give a fuck about a US citizens’ opinions, and the US government doesn’t know who you are. You are killing yourself to make a point to people who literally don’t care if you live or die, and any meaningful activism you could have done as an able-bodied person is lost forever.
People might remember that this happened, but it will be like a half-remembered dream when the next event oozes out of the ragebait news machine.
Based on what I leaned from the article about his final message, the protest wasn't for Israel's sake, it was to draw those living under the rule of a government's attention (whether Israel's, the U.S.'s, or wherever else's) to the situation. To point out that we are indeed living through a genocide perpetuated by our own government. Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn't be talking about it if he hadn't.
And maybe nothing will ultimately come of it, maybe it was a desperate act against his own powerlessness to stop it.
I would argue self immolation is a pretty powerful statement though, you weigh everything you are, everything you could be; against the hope that a message takes off somewhere.
Amen. This man did something. While we sit on our asses on Lemmy and complain. You can criticize his methods, but not his conviction.
Unruffled [they/them]You can absolutely criticize his conviction. It’s exactly this level of conviction that precipitated this tragic conflict in the first place. Hamas is convinced killing Israelis is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. Israel is convinced killing Palestinians is the solution to their problems. They did something about it. This guy was convinced killing himself is the answer. He did something about it. Cheering on any of these murderous, extremist asshats for having the courage of their convictions is woefully misguided.
There’s no murder here, unless you’re accusing himself of murdering himself, which is a whole can of worms. The other examples are consistent but his is decidedly different.
It is my conviction that killing under the cloak of war is nothing but an act of murder.
Albert Einstein
Agree, this is an extremely brave and selfless act. There have been many cases of self immolation over the years and they stick in the mind. Jan Palach and the many Tibetans spring to mind
I would call it selfish, because his effort could have been put towards lasting activism.
Sometimes a young man is just gonna do it instead of wait to see what life brings. Personally, I say wait and see what life brings. But i was his age once and i sort-of-kind-of get it.
Someone with that level of conviction and belief in what they imagine being a better world than this one is exactly the kind of person who should be running for office, not setting themselves on fire.
Agree, this is an extremely brave and selfless act.
While very brave, I would hesitate to label any act of suicide selfless. You are still breaking a piece inside of everyone you leave behind.
Also, the two examples you sourced weren’t really effective in the end. Czechoslovakia was still invaded, and Tibet is still being occupied by China.
Self Immolation is the most severe form of protest. It’s selfless cause you are giving your life to the cause so that maybe others will have a better chance at achieving their goals
so that maybe others will have a better chance at achieving their goals
How?
I’ve never heard of a situation that could be improved by someone lighting themselves on fire.
That kind of dedication directed towards acts of mutual aid would be invaluable. I think it’s sad that it was wasted on something so ephemeral.
historynewsnetwork.org/article/180606
There are a few line in this I really like
The famous photograph of the monk is shocking. It was like nothing people had seen before. Quang Duc sits peacefully in the meditative lotus position as the flames engulf him. The image is so perplexing, so contrary to ideas of self-preservation that the audience has to stop and ask questions about what is happening.
and this
The self-immolation was a powerful act of psychological warfare. By being willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for his people, Quang Duc showed the strength and immovable will of the Buddhist community. A foe that isn’t afraid of a painful death cannot be bullied and cajoled into submission.
I read a couple other articles on the history of self immolation. There was a new yorker article that did a good job on being scepitcal of the practice. Was suprised to find out that there are a lot more cases of it that I expected. Then again, the handful of cases where it had the intended effect were so successful that it makes sense that others would do the same hoping to get the same reaction (the Tibetan monks, the Arab Spring, etc)
But it definitely seems fair to say it doesn’t pack the punch it used to. Which might be good reason to choose other actions.
the handful of cases where it had the intended effect were so successful that it makes sense that others would do the same hoping to get the same reaction (the Tibetan monks, the Arab Spring, etc)
There’s no way to objectively determine if self immolation is “effective”. Take Tibet, yes it’s a famous photograph, but did it free Tibet? Was the monks goal to become a famous image, or was it to end the cultural genocide?
What about the Arab spring? Was that man’s goal to kick off a movement that would eventually destabilize the entire region, leading to more autocratic governments securing power?
Is self immolation a powerful act? Yes, but power without direction is meaningless. Real change requires collective action, not independent acts of “psychological warfare”.
Like I question his method, but realisticly speaking, you and I wouldn’t be talking about it if he hadn’t.
And that’s just it. We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say. And for the government supporting a regime that’s commiting genocide, that is already talked about ad nauseum online. There’s already pro-Palestine protests, there’s groups joining the “Uncommitted” movement—like, his act of self-immolation will be lost among every other act of protest going on.
Was it extreme? Yes. Was it effective? I don’t think so.
We’re talking about his methodology more than what he was trying to say.
You are. Because that’s the conversation you wanted to start rather than address his statements. The President of the United States almost certainly read about this event. It’s being covered in newspapers throughout the country. It’s only people like you who is saying it’s meaningless and no one cares.
I am almost certain nobody will be talking about this next week.
I do not apologize for accepting cold reality.
More people have died in so many other wars, but this is a genocide? I keep reading it but I don’t see it. Land displacement is not genocide.
underiskWhere do you think it falls short in the definition of genocide: “the deliberate killing of a large number of people from a particular nation or ethnic group with the aim of destroying that nation or group.”?
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war, and far higher numbers. I know the wars are very different but larger numbers have also died in the current Ukraine war.
If they’re trying to eliminate them as a people they need to pick up the pace. Also, my family was displaced from their land in the 1900s and had to seek asylum in the US. Nobody called it a genocide but also everyone was mostly white.
The criteria for genocide is not “kill a percentage of a population larger than the percentage that died in the US Civil War”. There’s no minimum requirement for per-capita death. It’s about intent and action. They are trying to kill or displace everyone in Gaza. That is genocide.
jordanlundThe UN Convention on Genocide defines it like this:
www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml
“a) Killing members of the group;
b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
So, point for point, the only one Israel hasn’t done in Gaza is “e”. But to be clear, you don’t have to hit all 5 to be a genocide, just one is enough. Russia is hitting all 5 in Ukraine.
1.5% of the population has been killed. That’s a lot but 2% of the US died in the civil war
The American Civil War ran from Apr 1861 – 9 Apr 1865. Four years
The Gaza genocide hasn't even been going for 6 months and it's already racked up 3/4 of the deaths of the entire US Civil War. If it runs for 4 years at the present rate it will kill 12% of the population and half of those are children.
A street vendor in Tunisia kicked off the Arab Spring by lighting himself on fire. en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohamed_Bouazizi
I honestly doubt this is going to start a revolution. Bouazizi’s act catalyzed public anger against their autocracy, but people in the US live in relative comfort. People aren’t angry enough in a large enough group to have that level of simmering outrage, mainly because it isn’t happening to them.
And that is precisely why all of this corruption and all of this inflation and everything gets by uncontested.
Because, people still live in some sort of complacency. As long as not everything imaginable is taken from them, then the average American goes "okay, still good!". They'll just bitch and gripe on social media while having to work around their bullshit and sacrifice tiny crumbs of comfort, but not all of their comfort.
Never thought I’d see someone tone policing self immolation.
How do we convince conservatives that self-immolation is their ticket to heaven?
Apparently, vaccine mandates.
By telling them heaven is controlled by white, pure-blooded christians that are free from the worries of black people and transgenders.
They already have a death wish
Even scarier than that, they desperately want to meet god but know that they can’t do it by their own hand, so they’re now looking to install a leader that they know is the antichrist because he will bring about the end of the world (Trump so desperately wants to use a nuke it’s got everyone on edge).
That’s already what they think.
JayI don’t want to sound cynical, but I really struggle with understanding what someone thinks they’ll actually accomplish setting themselves on fire. I it would be the most horrific way to die let alone doing it to yourself.
Yeah. Understand the power now rereading your sentence? It’s horrifying to think someone would do that by choice beaucse society is so evil.
I remember someone years ago killed themselves because they disagreed with how George W. Bush won re-election. Like, that totally did nothing and the machine kept rolling on.
I mean, kudos to anyone who's actually brave enough to have the strength to decide that this world is beyond repair that they check themselves out early. Tragic, but brave. Though, it doesn't really say anything.
If a group of people, set themselves up on fire infront of the target of the thing they have a problem with, now that is saying something and would be very powerful.