EinatYahavWindows 11 24H2 goes from “unsupported” to “unbootable” on some older PCs
Dr. WeskerOH NO anyway.
ShdwdrgnMaybe this will convince more people to switch to linux.
With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it’s really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch.
With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it’s really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch deck.
FTFY
Almost all I play on now.
Having less personal time and rising electricity costs has made the Deck my primary gaming machine lol.
I don’t support games with DRM, so pretty much everything I play works flawlessly on it (as well as “unsupported” titles via Proton GE)
Only pita setback is things like fortnite and other multi-player games insisting on only using anticheat software that isn’t Linux compatible.
I’m okay with this. I don’t support those publishers anyways. People should stop supporting them altogether.
Tried getting PCVR working with the Quest 2, unfortunately support is still a hot mess and leaves the system with a super janky flood of audio devices, in addition to legendary stutters that make it unplayable. Win11 still better for VR.
ZILtoid1991Issue is, a lot of people still using Windows, and Linux pro-audio is still questionable at best (lack of drivers, etc.).
Also there’s lots of industry tools where you can’t really use anything but Windows. Even if you could technically make it work, it isn’t a good idea because of how critical the system you’re interfacing with is.
Max-PThat’s not a guarantee on the Linux world either, but at least you do have the option of recompiling your distro to not use those options.
There’s talks from some distros to start dropping support for such old CPUs because it’s holding back newer CPUs that could run even faster by using those instructions.
Is it really that hard to include a fallback though? Obviously there’s a way to collect the information without that flag. I suppose if you didn’t want to take a performance hitting checking the flag all the time it could become a compile option (I would think anyone running that old of hardware would be willing to learn how to compile the kernel anyway), but there should be options available to keep the support available some how?
That’s pretty much exactly how it works already. You compile with -march=x86-64-v4 and it’ll use SSE and AVX all over the place.
glibc does the runtime thing, but only once on application startup where the dynamic linker will link the version of the function optimized for your CPU. But it’s a manual process on glibc’s part, the variants are written by hand.
Not every project cares enough to do it dynamically like that and it would be a nightmare that way.
The fallback is, recompile with -march=x86-64 which will only use the base set of instructions. Or -march=i486 if you want to run on absolutely ancient hardware.
agent_flounderCould be. If you’re running a core 2 duo I am fairly certain Linux will run markedly faster than Windows 10+…
I actually still have some old servers with chips from that period, one of them is still being used as my firewall but until last year I was using others to run multiple VMs for email and web sites. Not as power-efficient but they do still work.
I’ll be sure to inform my whole company and I am sure they will be on board
Don’t you wish… 😜
People on the fence may be convinced. Most will just buy new computers.
Just ordered a system76 laptop, can’t wait to use it!
Oh I’ve set up a couple of those at work! Their systems seem to be rock-solid (at least I’ve heard no complaints over the last few years), and their tech support is outstanding. Good luck with your new shiny!
The actual oh no is the amount of ewaste this will create as people buy completely new systems as they think that’s their only option
One man’s ewaste is another man’s etreasure.
Sure, but only a fraction will be saved. It’s criminal how much ewaste Apple and Microsoft are responsible for. That’s what happens when people are taught that profits can only increase year on year.
dan1101So if you got Win11 to install on an “unsupported” CPU it might not boot now?
Backward compatibility is a big selling point for me. It bugged me for years when Windows got rid of 16-bit compatibility.
Looking forward to Linux instead of Windows 11/12, I know it will be a learning curve but Linux is getting better and easier.
Honestly, it’s easier to keep my Debian machine from killing itself than any Windows install.
It seems like Windows actively sabotages itself for no reason.
Classic Debian stability issues i.e. borrrrring.
Might I recommend Manjaro? Might add some spice into your life.
How’s Manjaro and Steam working?
Perfectly.
Spicey
So this is anecdotal I know, but I work on a Mac, so I've only ever held on to Windows for gaming. (Sidenote: The Mac isn't my choice, either, but it has a terminal, and it does the job)
I've definitely tried to go fully Linux in the past, but it was always gaming that killed it for me. Wine was just never very consistent for me in this area.
Long story but, I recently lost my gaming machine, and was gifted a friends old one. Also a long story, but he ended up putting Linux on it for me. I figured I'd use it as is until payday before buying a key for Windows.
Holy shit gaming on Linux become has easy! Steam/proton is amazing!
I won't lie, it's not always as simple as install and run, but the tweaking that's been required has been orders of magnitude simpler than what it used to be. Click a box 90% of the time, Click a box and add a run parameter for another 5%.
The only games that haven't worked for me are Starfield and Cyberpunk (accounting for the last 5%.)
Starfield might just be too much for this old machine, but Cyberpunk I have no idea. Neither are a huge loss to me when Balders Gate, and Elite Dangerous are running fine. Also long standing favourites like Just Cause 3/4 work perfectly too.
I'm thrilled and a little shocked to say I think I'm finally done with Windows
henfredemarsI installed in dual boot configuration save for the fact that I haven’t yet booted back into Windows since.
Generally my games just work. More than that, the performance is great and the tweaks are few and far between where necessary. It’s an absolute world of difference in usability compared to a few years ago.
Peter1986CStarfield worked on Linux for me, albeit it with some graphical glitches.
Do it. I made the switch a few months ago, and it’s gone better than I’d expected. Now running Linux Mint on my desktop and laptop. I set my laptop up with dual boot, just so I can easily and natively run Windows apps if needed.
no bananaI’d recommend everyone switch to Linux! I only had to go back because of a very niche problem with head tracking support. Linux is ready for most people though.
Freetrack in my simulation games is why I still have Windows on my old gaming desktop - the tracking protocol that those sims use isn’t supported under Linux 😔 as well as another that specifically looks for the Logitech G hub to interface with the wheel.
Aside from the simulators, I’ve been gaming on Linux on my deck and haven’t run into any issues at all, especially with Proton-GE handy to run “unsupported” titles
Same experience!
👍Maximum Derek👍It’d ultimately be better for everyone if no PCs could boot windows 11.
JdWooh, be careful of that edge there, you might cut yourself kid.
This comment brought to you by Microsoft Edge™
WeirdGoesProWe have 3 deals for this comment!
I have a laptop that runs Win11. I have had no issues with it since I did the upgrade when it first came out and as far a Microsoft products go, it’s OK. But with the addition of the AI, I know at some point it will piss me off and I will wipe it and chose a distro to take it’s place.
I’m retired now, and I no longer really need the Fusion360 install that one customer requested I use for their designs nor do I play games beyond a little mahjongg and solitaire in the evenings if I feel the need.
Windows is merely a tool and a means to an end. It’s NOT the end in itself. Use the tool you want/need to and feel the best with and just get on with the job…
Jo MiranIn modern x86 CPUs, POPCNT is implemented as part of the SSE4 instruction set. For Intel's chips, it was added as part of SSE4.2 in the original first-generation Core architecture, codenamed Nehalem. In AMD's processors, it's included in SSE4a, first used in Phenom, Athlon, and Sempron CPUs based on the K10 architecture. These architectures date back to 2008 and 2007, respectively.
That effectively bars mid-2000s Intel Core 2 Duo systems and early Athlon 64-era PCs from booting Windows 11 at all, not that they officially supported it in the first place. This means the change should mainly affect retro-computing enthusiasts who spend their days making YouTube videos in the "we installed Windows 11 on a potato, let's see how it runs" genre rather than users of actual systems.
You can check your SSE support for 4.2 and 4a respectively but it sounds like unless you're running some real old stuff you shouldn't have to worry.
You got downvoted, but that’s literally who’s catch phrase it is. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
Welcome to Lemmy - where everything is made up and the points don’t matter.
I think you’re thinking of that show, Whose Line is it Lemmyway?
In modern x86 CPUs, POPCNT is implemented as part of the SSE4 instruction set. For Intel's chips, it was added as part of SSE4.2 in the original first-generation Core architecture, codenamed Nehalem. In AMD's processors, it's included in SSE4a, first used in Phenom, Athlon, and Sempron CPUs based on the K10 architecture. These architectures date back to 2008 and 2007, respectively.
That effectively bars mid-2000s Intel Core 2 Duo systems and early Athlon 64-era PCs from booting Windows 11 at all, not that they officially supported it in the first place. This means the change should mainly affect retro-computing enthusiasts who spend their days making YouTube videos in the "we installed Windows 11 on a potato, let's see how it runs" genre rather than users of actual systems.
You can check your SSE support for 4.2(Intel) and 4a(AMD) but it sounds like unless you're running some real old stuff you shouldn't have to worry.
But isn't Microsoft just so evil for making it to their operating system doesn't function flawlessly on twenty year old hardware?
Except there’s no reason for not supporting it beyond greed. It worked previously.
Greed? How does Microsoft profit from not supporting twenty year old hardware?
I got a new laptop and one of the first things I did was install Windows 10. My colleague has more or less the same laptop and complains how slow it is.
My Microsoft surface pro 8 is a slow piece of shit now. The animation switching between virtual desktops stutters. Any time I do it, the task bar goes blank and the height of it increases a lot before reverting. No I’m not reinstalling it. Talk about a waste of productivity. 10 is not great, but in modern terms it’s the new 7.
My gaming machine has 10 for some select games everything else is done on Linux - even a majority of my gaming.
May I ask - why is anyone bothering to install Windows 11 on old hardware in the first place?
Old hardware is better for Linux. Either install Linux or you can get used to having your old hardware be used as a paperweight.
Or just... Stay on Windows 10? There's nothing wrong with it compared to Windows 11 (though Linux is usually a better choice).
Windows 10 sucks as well.
Like seriously, it freaks out when I try right clicking on anything on the left hand panel of Windows Explorer.
And I have to keep restarting periodically, just to use not only my internal disc drive but also my external too.
Windows 10 is just as garbage.
For all it’s shortcomings this sounds more of something on your end and also something quirky that you will any OS really…