MicroWave

California's war on plastic bag use seems to have backfired. Lawmakers are trying again

https://lemmy.world/post/11906510

California's war on plastic bag use seems to have backfired. Lawmakers are trying again - Lemmy.World

It was a decade ago when California became the first state in the nation to ban single-use plastic bags, ushering in a wave of anti-plastic legislation from coast to coast. But in the years after California seemingly kicked its plastic grocery sack habit, material recovery facilities and environmental activists noticed a peculiar trend: Plastic bag waste by weight was increasing to unprecedented levels. According to a report by the consumer advocacy group CALPIRG, 157,385 tons of plastic bag waste was discarded in California the year the law was passed. By 2022, however, the tonnage of discarded plastic bags had skyrocketed to 231,072 — a 47% jump. Even accounting for an increase in population, the number rose from 4.08 tons per 1,000 people in 2014 to 5.89 tons per 1,000 people in 2022. The problem, it turns out, was a section of the law that allowed grocery stores and large retailers to provide thicker, heavier-weight plastic bags to customers for the price of a dime.

Feb 13, 2024 at 12:23pmWeb
Show threadÐ Greıt Þu̇mpkinFeb 13, 2024
That is such an idiotic loophole there is no way in hell it wasn’t bought by lobbyists
Show threadTWeaKFeb 13, 2024
The whole scheme is a farce designed to take what was once complimentary and turn it into a highly profitable side business. It’s the same the world over.
Show threadmuntedcrocodileFeb 13, 2024
I refuse to buy into the scam u can now find me balancing my groceries intop of eavhother as i try navugate from my car to my kitchen. Yes i know i could use a reusable bag but i always forget.
Show threaddustycupsFeb 13, 2024

You & me both. Yes I have a few in the car. No I’m not going back to get it. I’ll probably make it without dropping something.

Its just a small, unnecessary moment of tension in my day. And its mine.

Show threadArtieShawFeb 13, 2024
What made the difference for me was buying a really nice reusable bag. There's a brand called Flip and Tumble. They'll hold an absurd amount of stuff (something like 35lbs, if I remember correctly) and fold down into something smaller than a tennis ball. I keep two in the bottom of my purse and never need a bag. They are expensive (about $18 US), but I've had mine for almost 15 years.
Show threadTregetourJun 7, 2024
The fillip to retailers is incidental I suspect. The aim of plastic manufacturers when they engage in the lawmaking process is probably safeguarding their ability to produce plastic at an uninterrupted level. They’re happy to reduce total units provided the units are heavier. The environmental impact doesn’t matter: government and industry will continue forcing the recycling meme to look as though the conservation angle is covered, and once their part of the problem is solved, the problem no longer exists.
Show threadlps2Feb 13, 2024
You described most CA laws - don’t get me started on CARB and how is just pushing us toward bigger, less efficient cars while killing innovation by smaller engineering shops
Show threadColeSlothFeb 13, 2024
I’ma have to get you started. Explain yourself.
Show threadlps2Feb 28, 2024
It has virtually nothing to do with emissions (as if it did, they would just hook up a sniffer to test and be fine)- instead there are blanket bands on any modification not from Edelbrock or s couple others unless those companies pay exorbitant fees to be “CARB-approved” which has snuffed out innovation from smaller machine shops. And the loopholes are what has driven cars to be bigger and not more fuel efficient
Show threadUserFlairOptionalFeb 13, 2024
I’ma second. This is officiallly unofficial permission to begin your dissertation on unforeseen consequences. I’m here for this.
Show threadÐ Greıt Þu̇mpkinFeb 14, 2024
As the asker of the question and someone who is vaguely interested in maybe one day getting into hot rod building to have an electric that doesn’t have those blasted touch screens, by all means, get started on it.
Show threadTK420Feb 13, 2024

Totally was. In NJ, those poor saps were sold by the grocer lobbyists that the paper and plastic bag ban was good for reducing the amount of plastic bags. NJ is now seeing that there was no reduction in waste, but rather than cost being passed into the consumer. I lol’d so hard because “I told you so”

News 12 reported it on TV, so no, I have no link, but you can go find one.

Same shit, different set of idiots.

Show threadoriginaluciferFeb 13, 2024
this isnt just california. they rolled out these thicker bags everywhere so they are no longer 'single use' except to the people that use them.
Show threadEdibleFriendFeb 13, 2024
Here in MO basically everyone has super thin bags that suck ass.
Show threadPatchesFeb 13, 2024
They literally aren’t even worth using to pickup dog shit. Because you’ll get it on your hands.
Show threadEdibleFriendFeb 13, 2024
Yep. I’m instacart so I shop basically everywhere. The only places between here and Kansas that I see with good bags are Target and sprouts.
Show threadJJROKCZFeb 13, 2024
And they give me a look and roll their eyes when I place my reusable bag on the counter or have to fight the self checkout machine at Schnucks or Dierbergs to accept that I brought my own bags.
Show threadQuarterSwedeFeb 13, 2024
In CO this doesn’t seem to be much of a thing. Almost everyone is using reusable fabric bags or no bags at all. I can’t recall seeing thicker bags for sale at any of the retailers I frequent. Many don’t have bags at checkouts at all anymore even though you can buy the thin ones for a dime.
Show threadoriginaluciferFeb 13, 2024
ive seen them in at least 3 different states on the east coast
Show threadits_prolly_fineFeb 13, 2024
Interesting, here in NY grocery stores can’t have any plastic bags. The only bags they have are paper. Restaurants can have plastic bags though.
Show threadTK420Feb 13, 2024

Correct.

NY did not totally fuck up like NJ did, but that’s a song almost as old as time for the most part.

Show threadHobbitFoot Feb 13, 2024
The bags sold in NJ aren’t plastic. It is this weird cloth product.
Show threadgrueFeb 13, 2024
Show threadHobbitFoot Feb 13, 2024
I don’t know if it is synthetic.
Show threadgrueFeb 13, 2024

If it’s the really common kind of reusable bag that costs about $1 and resembles this…

…then yes, it’s synthetic.

Show threadThe_vFeb 13, 2024

Those thicker bags, tear easily and usually don’t survive longer than the trip home. It’s a stupid loophole. They also can’t be washed. So if you do reuse them, it’s a great way to buildup bacteria and molds.

In reality they are thicker single used bags.

Show threadCaptObviousFeb 13, 2024
It seems that a better alternative to banning plastic, which was never going to succeed, would be to mandate plant based plastics. Of course, then we get farmers growing plastic rather than food (remember ethanol?)….
Show threadGhostalmediaFeb 13, 2024
Banning plastic bags totally would’ve worked if not for the part of the law that allowed them to be legal if they were thicker.
Show threadeltrain123Feb 13, 2024

Or taxing the shit out of plastic production…

Tax the things you don’t want out of existence. Subsidize the things you want until they stand up on their own.

We’ve been subsidizing oil and gas/petrochem plastic manufacturing for far too long.

Show threadSemi-Hemi-DemigodFeb 13, 2024
Tax the production, and give the plastic companies rebates for plastic they permanently remove from the environment.
Show threadspyd3rFeb 14, 2024
I have a better idea, if you don’t want to use plastic bags don’t use plastic bags, leave other people alone to decide what they want to use.
Show threadeltrain123Feb 14, 2024
That’d be great if other people using plastic bags didn’t end up with them in my parks, streets, and waterways…
Show threadryathalFeb 13, 2024
A better move would have been focusing on larger uses of plastic, or helping developing countries get a functioning waste system. Single use plastic bags are super public, but practically irrelevant in terms of oil use or plastic waste.
Show threadCaptObviousFeb 13, 2024
Exactly
Show threadJamesTBaggFeb 13, 2024
Ethanol? You mean corn? Grain alcohol has been a thing for centuries.
Show threadCaptObviousFeb 13, 2024
In my neck of the woods, when it was being touted as a gasoline replacement, many farmers abandoned soy and wheat to grow corn. Many corn farmers refused to sell their crops as animal feed or human food because they could get better prices from ethanol producers. It created a food/feed problem for a few years.
Show threadAA5BFeb 13, 2024
I assumed we already had. Years ago, the thin bags became too crappy to re-use for anything, but whenever i did, a year later they’d be all yellowed and disintegrating
Show threadBlueLineBaeFeb 13, 2024
They did this in Chicago too and everyone immediately saw that it wasn’t about reducing plastic, but about getting more money to the city. If they actually cared about plastic, they would actually ban it. And you know what, It’s not hard at all. Think about what people were using in the 70s before plastic on everything was common. Paper grocery bags, wax paper at the deli counter, cardboard cartons for small fruit like blueberries, lettuce and potatoes laying bare on shelves instead of wrapped up in plastic bundles, beverages in cans and glass bottles. If they could do it, we can do it too.
Show threadCaptObviousFeb 13, 2024

Fair points. But look also at downstream uses for plastics that they’re banning. Many people reuse them as storage, litter box liners, trash bin liners, art materials…. All uses that would still need to be filled. Of course, banning them creates a market for replacement plastic products or boosts sales of existing products, so more money for capitalists, I guess.

As for open food in markets, I for one, having so far lived through a pandemic, can’t wait for a return to the days when sniffling, sneezing germ factories spewed mucus and worse all over the produce day in and day out.

Show threadAA5BFeb 13, 2024
Maybe, but I had already stopped doing this years before because the thin bags became too crappy to re-use for anything. I can’t be the only one
Show threadOkaFeb 13, 2024

The idea of reusable bags was great, but they operated the same as the old plastic bags. They’re thicker, more durable, but most people don’t care enough to bring back their old bags, and will just buy new ones because it’s convenient. Speaking from personal experience.

Also, different places have different protocols, sometimes they make you bag your own groceries if you bring your own bags. Again, some people won’t bother.

Show threadwerefreeatlastFeb 13, 2024
LOL my wife would come home with brand new plant liners. WTF! You can just vacuum form these things and reuse them as furniture.
Show threadHACKthePRISONSFeb 13, 2024
can you give me two paragraphs on this? i am really interested but i do not know what you're saying.
Show threadSheeEttinFeb 13, 2024

They’re saying the bags are thick enough to be used as plant pot liners (like those little black plastic buckets) and if you vacuum-formed them, thick enough to be furniture (like those plastic school chairs).

The chair thing is hyperbolic, but they’re certainly durable enough for other purposes. Ideally reuse.

Here in Massachusetts, several cities have banned plastic bags entirely (with exceptions for things like people with disabilities, so there are always some under the counter). Most places have either gone back to paper or make you bring your own.

Outside the US, a lot of stores already expect you to bring your own bags.

Show threadHACKthePRISONSFeb 13, 2024
thank you!
Show threadwerefreeatlastFeb 13, 2024
I’m just agreeing with the post. My wife went from bringing countless things plastic bags to bringing countless thick plastic bags. The mindset of re-use was limited to using the bags to toss baby diapers. But not actually to keep using the bag over and over for bringing groceries home.
Show threadHACKthePRISONSFeb 13, 2024
thank you
Show threadbassadFeb 14, 2024
put the stack of thick plastic bags in your car, you will progressivly think about taking some with you when going groceries
Show threadRapidcreekFeb 13, 2024
Germany did this years ago. Seems to work. You can still get plastic bags, but you have to pay for them.
Show threadPotatos_are_not_friendsFeb 13, 2024

That’s what the article is saying.

The intent was to drop plastic usage. It did, but plastic usage multiplied because the plastic bags people are paying for contain more plastic than before.

Show threadRapidcreekFeb 13, 2024
Another German law states that if you make a product, like a plastic bag, you must pay for its disposal after use. That way, if a product changes, the manufacturer bears the cost. Does drive prices up, though.
Show threadbassadFeb 13, 2024

Damn, some others countries successfully banned single-use plastic bags years ago, replacing them by re-usable thicker bags that you can buy, people are now accustomed to bring bags to go shopping.

Seems like californians have too much money or are very generous.

Show threadjuneFeb 13, 2024
Or the bags are too cheap.
Show threadNotSteve_Feb 13, 2024

We have these cheap fabric bags that groceries stores give out here in Canada. They cost something like 25 cents each and could theoretically be used disposably but most people don’t seem to. I have a stupid amount of them stuffed into my car’s trunk that I usually bring into stores.

Does California only sell those big plastic re-useable bags? I don’t even really see those here in Canada much anymore

Show threadTDCNFeb 13, 2024
If only the bags were significantly more expensive people would actually start to care and reuse the bags. Where in from the bags cost the equivalent to 2-3 dollars. A lot of people started using fabric bags and reuse the thicker plastic bags many times. I can easily use the thick plastic grocery bags we have 20 times and the fabric ones I mainly use are over 5 years now and counting.
Show threadpelotronFeb 13, 2024
People are gonna be pissed when they find out about plastic water bottles.
Show threadholycrapFeb 13, 2024

Those are recyclable allegedly.

… in practice they really arent though but they do make us feel responsible when we toss those in the blue bin

Show thread🇰 🌀 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 🇮 🏆Feb 13, 2024

Plastics aren’t as recyclable as they make it sound. But at the same time, nobody ever remembers the other 2 fucking R’s:

Reduce your consumption of these materials and

Reuse things that aren’t damaged.

Recycling is meant to be the last stop; not the only stop.

There is no reason you can’t just keep using the same grocery bags every week until they actually are non functional. But most people just bin them as soon as they are done.

Show threadsplongloFeb 13, 2024
Those are made of PET which is one of the most recycled types of plastic ever.
Show threadMyOpinionFeb 13, 2024
Plastic bags need to be banned totally.