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Republicans Push To Legalize ‘Property Owners’ Killing Homeless People in Kentucky

https://lemmy.world/post/11056727

Republicans Push To Legalize ‘Property Owners’ Killing Homeless People in Kentucky - Lemmy.World

In Kentucky, politicians are preparing to vote on a law that would authorize the use of force against unhoused people who are found to be camping on private property. Republican politicians in Kentucky are rallying behind a new bill that would authorize the use of force—and potentially deadly force—against unhoused people who are found to be camping on private property. The bill would also criminalize unsanctioned homeless encampments and restrict cities and towns from preempting state laws. The bill, known as the “Safer Kentucky Act,” or HB5, would target homelessness, drug possession and mental illness by drastically increasing criminal penalties for a range of offenses. Introduced last week by Republican state representative Jared Bauman, it already has 52 sponsors in Kentucky’s House of Representatives. A vote is scheduled for this week. Advocates are most alarmed by one aspect of the “Safer Kentucky Act” in particular: an anti-homeless provision that would authorize violence by property owners on people camping on their property. The bill says the use of force is “justifiable” if a defendant believes that criminal trespass, robbery or “unlawful camping” is occurring on their property.

Jan 22, 2024 at 10:30pmWeb
Show threadoriginaluciferJan 22, 2024
the party of jesus, folks.
Show threadWhirling_CloudburstJan 22, 2024
Supply Side Jesus for sure.
Show threadAllonzeeLVJan 22, 2024
It’s a shame American Evangelicals can’t read, or they’d realize they’ve been worshipping a filthy commie the whole time.
Show threadSuperDuperJan 23, 2024
Wait until they find out he was a brown skinned middle easterner.
Show threaddangblingusJan 23, 2024
Jordan? Judah? Michael? Matthew? Luke? Those are all nice Christian boy names.
Show threadbadbytesJan 23, 2024

Hmmm, WWJD, What would Jesus do?

Set them on fire and send them to hell.

Show threadagitatedpotatoJan 23, 2024
Jesus beating up merchants who set up shop outside a temple is canon. We have evidence Jesus has the will and capacity for violence and what he would do in an American state or federal legislative building would probably freak a lot of people out.
Show threadAngryCommieKenderJan 23, 2024

He didn’t just flip tables and whip the moneychangers. He was so full of righteous fury that he left, and took hours to braid his own whip, came back, and then started flipping tables and whipping moneychangers.

In my head I like to envision him sitting on a rock, braiding the whip, and muttering to himself. Shit like:

“Mother fuckers, I swear to Dad, you don’t even know what Monopoly is yet, and I’m gonna show you the proper ending to the Milton Bradley version of that game.”

While the Apostles are just huddled around bewildered and scared since they have no clue what’s about to happen, since they’d NEVER seen him even irritated before.

Show threadAnn ArchyJan 23, 2024
Second time I need to drop Supply Side Jesus in a day: imgur.com/gallery/bCqRp
The Gospel of Supply Side Jesus

Discover topics like al franken, jesus, satire, and the magic of the internet at Imgur, a community powered entertainment destination. Lift your spirits with funny jokes, trending memes, entertaining gifs, inspiring stories, viral videos, and so much more from users like kanosea.

Imgur
Show threadMario_Dies.wavJan 22, 2024

A “Safer Kentucky Act” that makes it extremely unsafe for one of our nation’s most vulnerable groups.

Absolute ghouls.

Show threadwintermutehalJan 22, 2024
It’s funny in a sick way that Tales from the Crypt had an episode about eating the homeless by an organization named G.H.O.U.L.S
Show threadTWeaKJan 23, 2024

Tales from the Crypt, man that takes me back.

Apparently you’re talking about S03E10 Mournin’ Mess.

Tales From The Crypt s03e10

YouTube
Show threadwintermutehalJan 23, 2024
Yep! That’s the one! Haha, it was on HBO, so that all tracks. There was also an actual kiddie cartoon version as well though!
Show threadTWeaKJan 24, 2024
It’s a good episode! And a great show, I’m gonna have to download and binge the lot.
Show threadwintermutehalJan 24, 2024
There’s almost all of them on YouTube if you want to go that route! Be warned however, one dude‘s playlist has these ads for his god awful band at the end of every episode haha
Show threadDigitalTraveler42Jan 23, 2024

These are the type of people who watch The Purge and think “hell yeah, can’t wait brother!” As if their old dumbassas wouldn’t be amongst the first purged.

I’ve known quite a few Doomers and Accerationists and each one has never served in the military, completely obsessed with guns, and seem to be scared of anyone different, if TEOTWAWKI went down I’d be pointing my crew in their direction for easy loot if there was a need.

Show threadoriginalfrozenbananaJan 23, 2024
Well yes but those aren’t people /s
Show threadSchadrachJan 23, 2024
I know right? We need to do more to protect checks bill people who are trespassing and threaten you with or use force against you when you ask them to leave. Whatever will our most vulnerable do if they can’t threaten to stab you when you ask them to respect your property?
Show threadLEDZeppelinJan 22, 2024
Then once passed, quietly reinterpret “property owners” as anyone with a right skin color. Just ask that Kenosha shooter how it’s done.
Show threadRentlarJan 22, 2024

No need… home-ownership is already skewed to a race.

From Census.gov

Homeownership by Race and Ethnicity of Householder

View the differences in homeownership rate, number of homeowners, and number of housing units between 2010 and 2020.

Census.gov
Show threadlazynoobletJan 22, 2024
These people can’t have a shred of empathy. The homeless being treated like vermin. People at the lowest point of their lives, when they need help the most, are mistreated awfully by those in power.
Show threadgnateJan 22, 2024
The “Stop Hitting Yourself Act”
Show threadcalabastJan 22, 2024

The bill says the use of force is “justifiable” if a defendant believes that criminal trespass, robbery, or “unlawful camping” is occurring on their property.

Great, so not only does it let them shoot homeless people, it lets them do it even if they “believe” it’s happening. So you can just shoot someone on your property for no reason at all, and say “well, I though they were performing a robbery”.

Show threadmetaStaticJan 22, 2024
isn't gay panic a legal defense in the states? there are so many legal ways to murder someone over there what's one more going to do?
Show threadoriginaluciferJan 23, 2024

there was one kid who got off because, i shit you not, "hes too rich".. killed 4 people and walked away with probation. he did time later for something else, parole violation

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/02/us/ethan-couch-affluenza-jail.html

welcome to the united states.

Ethan Couch, ‘Affluenza Teen’ Who Killed 4 While Driving Drunk, Is Freed

Mr. Couch spent 720 days in jail after killing four people and paralyzing a fifth in a car crash. His defense contended that he was too rich to know right from wrong.

The New York Times
Show threadGormadtJan 23, 2024

“They were scoping the place out to put up a tent, I had to shoot them officer.”

“They didn’t have anything with them”

“But I believed that was their purpose”

"Alright, checks out, have a nice day sir."

  • Somewhere in near future in Kentucky if this passes
Show threadSchadrachJan 23, 2024
The article doesn’t adequately describe the bill. You need to insert the bit where you asked them to leave and they threatened you with force in response.
Show threadGormadtJan 23, 2024

So basically it’s your word vs the word of a dead man

Gotcha

Show threadCodeNameJan 23, 2024
They’re basically extending Castle Doctrine out to the sidewalk. Next they’ll add you car to the list and you get to shoot anyone who cuts you off or makes eye contact with you while driving. After that you’ll get a personal exclusivity zone and can shoot anyone who comes within ten feet of you in public as long as they look “homeless” (ie are poor and/or black).
Show threadArbitraryValueJan 22, 2024

The bill isn’t legalizing the killing of homeless people. The actual text of the bill, regarding the use of force against “unlawful camping”:

The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the defendant believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent:

© The commission of unlawful camping in violation of Section 17 of this Act, when the offense is occurring on property owned or leased by the defendant, the individual engaged in unlawful camping has been told to cease, and the individual committing the offense has used force or threatened to use force against the defendant.

Note that the use of force is only authorized against “unlawful campers” who are themselves getting violent.

Show threadMatch!!Jan 22, 2024
how do they define camping
Show threadArbitraryValueJan 22, 2024

A person is guilty of unlawful camping when he or she knowingly enters or remains on a public or private street, sidewalk, area under a bridge or underpass, path, park, or other area designated for use by pedestrians or vehicles, including areas used for ingress or egress to businesses, homes, or public buildings, with the intent to sleep or camp in that area, when the area has not been designated for the purpose of sleeping or camping or the individual lacks authorization to sleep or camp in the area.

Show threadshalafiJan 23, 2024
That’s my read as well. So why do we need a new law?
Show threadChonkyOwlbearJan 23, 2024
Easy to say someone threatened you when you’re alive and they are dead.
Show threadkrellorJan 23, 2024
In that context it reads like the bill is more intended to shield people from charges who end up in altercations after telling people to leave.
Show threadBigWheelPowerBrakeSliderJan 23, 2024
Thank you for providing some direct language from the proposed statute. I do not know Kentucky state law but I’d be willing to bet a few dollars that there are already laws on the books that deal with all situations this proposed law purports to handle. Trespassing, vagrancy, camping, stand your ground/castle doctrines, assault/battery, etc. Can anyone more familiar confirm or negate my admittedly unstudied guess?
Show threadSchadrachJan 23, 2024

Trespassing, vagrancy, camping, Doesn’t have anything special about justifying use of force when the trespasser threatens violence after being asked to leave, that’s what this bill does.

stand your ground/ Stand your ground literally just means you aren’t required to try to run away if you are attacked. In places without stand your ground use of force is not justifiable if you reasonably could have fled the scene.

castle doctrines, Stops at your front door. No dice for the tent springing up in your backyard.

assault/battery, Not until they’ve put you in immediate danger of death or serious injury. Depending on the state (ie whether or not the state has stand your ground) you may also have to take any means available to run away from the situation before use of force is justified.

Show threadmagnusrufusJan 23, 2024
Not that the use of force is authorized when the person killing another person “believes” it’s necessary and claims that the person they killed was warned or made threats.
Show threadArbitraryValueJan 23, 2024
The more common legal standard for self-defense is “reasonably believes”, but I’m not familiar enough with Kentucky law to say whether or not “reasonable” is presumed as part of the definition of “belief” here, or whether or not the standard here is lower than Kentucky’s general standard for self-defense.
Show threadyarrJan 23, 2024
You aren’t missing shit. This is the correct interpretation of the law. Most of the posters here assume this legislation is the equivalent of a hunting license for homeless, which couldn’t be further from the truth. This affects only violent trespassers who have already been advised of their trespassing and displayed violence. Anyone randomly gunning down people who step on their property will have to convince a jury it was in compliance with this regulation.
Show threadVeryVitoJan 22, 2024

Their plan to fight homelessness and mental illness is simple: Make them illegal! That should solve it.

Meanwhile, regulating firearms won’t work because then only criminals will have guns. These people are ducking evil.

Show threadchiliedoggJan 24, 2024
This is the same crowd that wanted to fight COVID by just letting people die until it wasn’t a problem anymore.
Show threadPM_Your_Nudes_PleaseJan 23, 2024
“Just sprinkle some tent poles on him, Johnson. Let’s get outta here.”
Show threadWermhatswormhatJan 23, 2024
Like, where else are they supposed to go? They refuse to build any kind of a shelter becuse nobody wants to have one around them. Ironically instead they spend all their money building billion dollar sports stadiums. They just want to criminalize being poor.
Show threadBigWheelPowerBrakeSliderJan 23, 2024
Such a difficult societal ill to solve. (Or maybe not?) On the one hand nobody wants, nor should be forced to deal with a homeless encampment in their backyard. On the other, where is one supposed to go? To the woods to survive off the land? Can’t as it’s mostly private property and it’s illegal to camp, or stay longer than 2 weeks in any one spot on all government owned land (of which I am aware, including all those millions of acres of BLM land). So, we need an alternative and as you suggested, our priorities as a society seem to be askew. Then what about those who we simply can’t house and feed and stabilize for myriad reasons (mental health being a big, if not the biggest one)? Some people will say we can’t just continue “throwing money at xyz unsolvable problem.” And I see validity in this. Others may perhaps argue that a professional sports stadium brings in revenue to the city beyond what is paid out of the tax coffers. (I’d like to see the math if stadiums ever end up providing a return on investment for a city–I have significant doubts.) Anyone out there have some legitimate ideas on solving the problem besides sending people to the woods to die or be arrested vs building huge encampments that I foresee quickly becoming superfund sites? Is there a model out there that could be applied to the US?
Show threadTylerdurdonJan 23, 2024
Man, bad week to be homeless! By Friday they’ll be legalizing priests’ ability to crucify homeless people who trespass.
Show threadPedroMaldonadoJan 23, 2024
Classic. Punish being poor.
Show threadNineMileTowerJan 23, 2024
If the options are to buy them bootsraps to pull themselves up by or shoot them, they are going to get shot.
Show threadAnneBonnyJan 23, 2024

**2 (1) The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the 3 defendant believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent: ** 4 (a) The commission of criminal trespass, robbery, burglary, or other felony 5 involving the use of force, or under those circumstances permitted pursuant to 6 KRS 503.055, in a dwelling, building or upon real property in his or her 7 possession or in the possession of another person for whose protection he or 8 she acts;[ or] 9 (b) Theft, criminal mischief, or any trespassory taking of tangible, movable 10 property in his or her possession or in the possession of another person for 11 whose protection he or she acts; or 12 © The commission of unlawful camping in violation of Section 17 of this Act, 13 when the offense is occurring on property owned or leased by the defendant, 14 the individual engaged in unlawful camping has been told to cease, and the

** 15 individual committing the offense has used force or threatened to use force**
** 16 against the defendant.**

I haven’t been through all the amendments yet, and I’m not a lawyer, but the author of the article may have mischaracterized a portion of the bill.

Show threadPeepinGoodArgsJan 23, 2024
How?
Show threadAnneBonnyJan 23, 2024

The article says:

The bill says the use of force is “justifiable” if a defendant believes that criminal trespass, robbery or “unlawful camping” is occurring on their property.

The bill says:

2 (1) The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the
3 defendant believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent:
… 12 (c) The commission of unlawful camping in violation of Section 17 of this Act,
13 when the offense is occurring on property owned or leased by the defendant,
14 the individual engaged in unlawful camping has been told to cease, and the
15 individual committing the offense has used force or threatened to use force
16 against the defendant.

Show threadPeepinGoodArgsJan 23, 2024
A dead person can’t defend themselves. All the aggressor has to do is say, “They threatened to kick my ass, so I shot them in theirs.” How do you dispute that the defendant is lying?
Show threadagitatedpotatoJan 23, 2024
You don’t and that’s why cops have told me in plain words if you ever have to shoot someone, its better for you if they don’t survive.
Show threadSchadrachJan 23, 2024
Barring cases where they basically hand you your self defense argument, such as Gaige Grosskreutz. I remember watching the Rittenhouse trial and the exact moment I knew he was going to be found not guilty on that count during Grosskreutz’s testimony.
Show threadkibiz0rJan 23, 2024
Prosecutors have to conduct a court-observed seance in order to convict you.
Show threadAnneBonnyJan 23, 2024
The same way you dispute the truth of any statement in a court of law.
Show threadBigWheelPowerBrakeSliderJan 23, 2024
I’m not commenting on the particulars of this proposed bill one way or the other, but I was going to say that I wish these articles would at least link to the actual language of the proposed statute so I can decide whether I agree with the article writer’s interpretation or if it’s clickbait.
Show threadSchadrachJan 23, 2024

but I was going to say that I wish these articles would at least link to the actual language of the proposed statute

Link to bill: apps.legislature.ky.gov/record/24rs/hb5.html

It’s kind of a pet peeve of mine too.

24RS HB 5

Show threadmagnusrufusJan 23, 2024
In what way?
Show threadAnneBonnyJan 23, 2024

The article says:
The bill says the use of force is “justifiable” if a defendant believes that criminal trespass, robbery or “unlawful camping” is occurring on their property.

The law says:

2 (1) The use of physical force by a defendant upon another person is justifiable when the
3 defendant believes that such force is immediately necessary to prevent:
… 12 (c) The commission of unlawful camping in violation of Section 17 of this Act,
13 when the offense is occurring on property owned or leased by the defendant,
14 the individual engaged in unlawful camping has been told to cease, and the
15 individual committing the offense has used force or threatened to use force
16 against the defendant.