someguy3Are Americans more prone to conspiracy theories than people in other countries?
jabathekekI would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA’s public education system was eviscerated in the 70’s I think.
TropicalDingdongI would say people in countries with poor or non-existent public education are more prone. The USA’s public education system was eviscerated in the 70’s I think.
As early as the 60s, but really the 80s. Through the 70s US had some of the best public education on the planet. The move to privatize education started in earnest under Reagan (in California, as governor), and then further under Reagan (and every president and congress to now).
Specifically:
• calling for an end to free tuition for state college and university students
• annually demanding 20 percent across-the-board cuts in higher education funding
• repeatedly slashing construction funds for state campuses
• engineering the firing of Clark Kerr, the highly respected president of the University of California
• declaring that the state “should not subsidize intellectual curiosity”
DreamButtHow the fuck do you come to the conclusion that you’re spending too much money on education
Easy
They are talking at the dinner table about doing things that are against my self interest. I don’t want those damn kids learning that. Therefore cut education
Rather that you know the market place of ideas that I espouse; as long as they match what I believe.
Just look at the GOP. They repeat garbage until their pawns believe it.
With Reagan, it was because Republicans at the time thought there would be too many educated poor people. One of his advisors (Roger Freeman) said:
“We are in danger of producing an educated proletariat…That’s dynamite! We have to be selective on who we allow [to go to college]…If not, we will have a large number of highly trained and unemployed people.”
He was basically worried about a revolution because of it.
Source: theintercept.com/…/student-loans-debt-reagan/
There’s other sources if you don’t like the Intercept.
snooggumsEducated people tend to lean liberal and conservatives hate open minded people.
HairyblueIt's this. People with good educations will figure out that the Republicans are lying to them to take advantage of them. Republicans don't want their pigeon/fools to think too hard about the lies they tell.
Look at Trump. Is he an obvious liar? Yes. But there are very "poorly educated" people who believe all the lies he says.
Right. We missed our chance when Hillary didn’t get in. I can’t see why people imply she’s dishonest.
People in education tend to lean liberal. Conservatives don’t hate people but they do realize there’s such thing as being so open minded your brains spill out.
R E A G A N.
The Trump era began by ripping out the solar panels on the White House and tricking blue collars into voting against themselves.
It was, and is, fucking awful.
Well, you see, it was educate 10,000 people or build another fighter jet.
That last one hits hard. The state must subsidize intellectual curiosity. Intellectual curiosity gave us everything from electricity to modern governmental theory to the mathematics that would later turn out to allow wireless communications. Curiosity without a point is extremely valuable.
And it should be noted that even in late medieval Europe the state funded intellectual curiosity. The nobility were the state and many either were curious themselves or would patronize intellectuals
Ann ArchyAnd people look at that and say, sure, I’ll vote for this guy.
It’s a self perpetuating spiral to hell.
perfectly said.
watsonBy design. It’s a lot easier to fleece stupid people.
JusticeForPorygonIDK if it’s that or just the fact that there’s both a lot of us and a great sense of nationalism instilled in us from a very young age. I’ve been to Mt. Rushmore twice. Only recently did I learn about how it was a sacred site to the native people that we promised to leave alone, before stealing it and blowing it to hell.
What I’m getting at is that we’re taught that America is the greatest nation on the planet, and we’re encouraged to be loud about that statement. So when a certain group of people in the government who are also very loud about their beliefs start saying some things that might sound completely bonkers to a foreigner, a lot of people find themselves agreeing purely because they like the attitude of the people talking.
Visiting Rushmore as a non-American is even weirder than you imagine.
The levels of over the top blatantly performative “patriotism” is quite bizarre to be surrounded by.
And the suspicious looks we got for not participating enthusiastically was discomforting (no, I’m not going to recite a pledge of allegiance to your country. Why would you expect me to?)
Now imagine a Confederate version with more racism and you have Stone Mountain.
I hate this country sometimes.
EldritchThe country is okay. It’s just the people I don’t like.
Yeah sorry about that. They’re similarly awful to live near.
And the reality is Mt Rushmore is mostly going to be visited by people like that and foreigners. Mt Rushmore is one of the principal sacred sites of the American civil religion. Treat them like religious pilgrims because they kinda were, but they don’t even realize it. The pledge of allegiance is a prayer to adherents.
You think brainwashing may have something to do with it?
Yeah that’s essentially what I wanted to describe.
I agree. Definitely brainwashing.
BoozillaOnly an agent of the New World Order would post this.
You know too much, Trent Miller. Would be a shame if people knew you lived at 221b Evergreen Terrace, Castle Rock Maine.
It was 451c Chapter Road, London, NW2 5NG
I giggled aloud!
Studies have found ( for example ) conspiracy thinking correlates with extremist political beliefs, especially right wing political beliefs, across countries. That linked study found the effect was strengthened by lack of political control.
Conspiracy mentality and political orientation across 26 countries - Nature Human Behaviour
Across 26 countries, Imhoff et al. find that conspiracy mentality is more prevalent at both ends of the political spectrum than the centre. This U-shaped pattern is accentuated for supporters of political parties not in government, particularly on the political right.
jeffwWe conclude that conspiracy mentality is associated with extreme left- and especially extreme right-wing beliefs, and that this non-linear relation may be strengthened by, but is not reducible to, deprivation of political control.
To add to this, radicalism spreads thru a social contagion effect and requires repeated reinforcement, and social media acts as a catalyst. However, local organizing also plays a vital role in the spread far-right extremism.
Here is an article I have written on my blog detailing how people become radicalized. I have ads turned off and do not benefit in any way from my blog.
One important section I’d like to share here is for the false ‘both sides’ arguments:
There is a stark difference in the means with which the two groups engage in acts of extremism. In a study evaluating Left-Wing and Right-Wing domestic extremism between 1994 and 2020, there was one fatality as the result of Left-Wing extremism, versus 329 fatalities resulting from Far Right extremism in that 25 year period. [[5]](https://thereflectiveequilibrium.blogspot.com/2023/12/defining-path-to-radicalization-and.html?m=1#[5]) The Far-Right movement is the oldest and most deadly form of domestic terrorism in the United States, and The Anti-Defamation League Center on Extremism found that the Far-Right is responsible for 98% of extremist murders in the U.S. [[24]](https://thereflectiveequilibrium.blogspot.com/2023/12/defining-path-to-radicalization-and.html?m=1#[24]) Furthermore, for nearly every year since 2011, Far-Right terrorist attacks/plots have accounted for over half of all terror attacks/plots in the United States. [[21]](https://thereflectiveequilibrium.blogspot.com/2023/12/defining-path-to-radicalization-and.html?m=1#[21]) In the U.S., Right-Wing extremism was responsible for two-thirds of all failed, foiled, or successful terror attacks in 2019, and was responsible for 90% of attacks in the first half of 2020 alone. [[21]](https://thereflectiveequilibrium.blogspot.com/2023/12/defining-path-to-radicalization-and.html?m=1#[21]) Since 2013, Far-Right extremism has been responsible for more terror attacks/plots than the Left-Wing, ethnonationalism, or religiously motivated attacks/plots. [[21]](https://thereflectiveequilibrium.blogspot.com/2023/12/defining-path-to-radicalization-and.html?m=1#[21]))That was a really interesting read, thank you for sharing.
The blog comes across a lot more professional than expected, cheers
That is the finest example of begging the question I have seen in years! It’s really rare to see in the wild.
Oooh, could you expand on that? I’ve always had a tough time identifying begging the question and a real example would help.
You are MOST welcome, it took me ages to make it click, this is the best example I have found:
-
How come the iPhone so popular?
-
Because it’s the hottest thing on the market right now.
Ha! I’d discarded that as just a tautology and went looking for something else.
TYVM.
YAMBB
you and me both bro
SpicyAntI think that the distrust of governments and generally those in power is a world-wide phenomenon. But I personally don’t think that it is unwarranted. Corruption, abuses of power, and conspiracies are widespread.
Now explain why the conspiracy theorists always side with fascist rulership.
What do you mean? Can you describe what you mean with ‘fascist rulership’? Then maybe I can try.
For example… people in Mexico many people suspect that politicians have associations with drug dealers, and many believe believe that particular bureaucratic systems (such as handing out public infrastructure projects) are exploited to distribute funds in ways that benefit those in power and their friends, these people I would classify as “conspiracy theorists”, and in many cases they have been correct. You think that these people will always side with fascist rulership?
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically. Like the Contras, that type of fascism.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
Fascist as in the US actively supporting and financing terrorism in countries it wants control over, historically.
Isn’t this a conspiracy theory? I think that the official position of the US is that they are not financing terrorists, and many of their military actions have been performed to defend citizens from their ruler’s human rights violations. Isn’t the Cuban embargo officially there to protect the Cubans against human rights violations? I think that arguing otherwise makes one a conspiracy theorist.
I am not saying this to argue, I am trying to explain what I understand with conspiracy theory - someone who is skeptical about the official narrative, and believes that those in power will not always be transparent and honest to the public.
And I think that being suspicious has been co-opted by the right wing, yes.
I am aware of the “drain the swamp” rhetoric, that there was a QAnon, anti-vax, and other more fringe theories. But I think that this is a sub-set of conspiracy theorizing that is amplified by the media. Many conspiracy theorists are investigative journalists and critics of governments. And many conspiracy theories have ended up being true. I don’t think that critical thought and skepticism is an exercise that only right-wingers should participate in.
Literally Sandinistas and Contras. Literally one of the world’s most egregious and “oh shit we got caught” moments in US history. Iran-Contras affair doesn’t ring a bell, does it? Why don’t you start there for both our sakes.
Home grown conspiracy theorists are basically all fascist, yes. That whole segment of knowledge, if you can call it that, was astropaved by the right wing decades ago. Let’s put it this way, Alex Jones isn’t voting left.
It rings a bell but I am not familiar with the details, I will look into it but I can’t address it right away. I am well aware that the US is an imperialist nation that has committed and continues to commit horrible acts all over the world. But the point is that this is not the official narrative of the US government. They may give some concessions about what occurred in the past, but the official narrative about what is happening now is always that they and their friends are the good guys.
I am not from the US and the question is about conspiracy theories in other countries. If the question means whether Americans are more prone to believe US-conspiracy theories, then yes, simply because they are much more likely to be aware of them. Many people in other countries don’t consume as much media in English and might have no idea who Jeffrey Epstein was. So they probably have no opinion on whether there was foul play on his dead. But I think that if you talk to someone in Mexico and tell them the story of Epstein, most will agree that there was foul play involved. I am telling you this from my personal experience, at least within my circle but I think it expands more generally. We have a general distrust of the government and law enforcement, and so a story in which foul play is involved to silence someone else resonates. It happens all the time! Journalists are being killed all the time around here to silence them, and very often they are being critical of people in power… Is it really that unwarranted to be suspicious?
Those are fair points- I’m not native US either, just to make clear, and I understand what you’re saying. It’s kind of like, better safe than sorry? There is an evolutionary advantage in beings suspicious, in fact some say that the act of lying and lie detection in humans had a significant impact in forming our ability to communicate through language, so it’s a big deal, sure. We don’t want to get hustled, know what I mean?
The issues arise later, when all our needs are met and we’re fed and cozy, and still our minds try to evolve and suspect everything around us because- better safe than sorry, right?
I feel like Americans generally “know better”. The bottle says to take two, we know better than to follow the label, we take four. The button says to hold until three quarters full, we know better than to fall for that coffee stealing scheme, we crank that baby till it spills over and then try to add 10 creamers with a name we can’t pronounce. So when we hear that someone died under a bizarre circumstance, we know better.
I feel like Americans generally “know better”. The bottle says to take two, we know better than to follow the label, we take four. The button says to hold until three quarters full, we know better than to fall for that coffee stealing scheme, we crank that baby till it spills over and then try to add 10 creamers with a name we can’t pronounce. So when we hear that someone died under a bizarre circumstance, we know better.
I have taken to calling this “American Exceptionalism”. Its in some ways baked in to how Americans address their world. I think much of it comes from pride-in-struggle, that for many Americans, their pride is all they have. And so this needs to be bolstered, put up front.
A combination of narcissism and solipsism, truly messed up and dangerous
.
loobkoobAs a non-American:
I feel like hyper-capitalism and America's borderline corporatocracy is responsible for this. So many Americans feel like they're being lied or taken advantage of in order for corporations to profit.
The suspicions about "Big Pharma", for instance, almost make sense to me if I try to consider it from an American perspective. Healthcare is insanely expensive there, and being told you need to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars "for your own good" is enough to make anyone suspicious. Especially when you see men posting their itemised hospital bills online where they were billed $300 for "women's sanitary products" - it's very clear these companies and healthcare providers are willing to be dishonest in order to profit. So American people start to distrust the entire industry/field.
Of course, when you look at it from a global perspective, or especially from a perspective of a country with nationalised healthcare where the same profit motives don't exist, it seems absurd. Just because the American companies are scummy doesn't mean the science behind medicine is wrong or a lie.
And it's the same across so many other industries. American companies take advantage of consumers, consumers start to distrust them. American people have been conditioned to distrust or be sceptical of so many things at this point that a lot of people feel like their own judgement is the only thing they can trust. Of course, not everyone has the critical thinking skills for that to actually be true, nor does everyone have the education in every single area for it to be true. And for those people with weaker critical thinking skills, having some charlatan come along and say, "well we all know you can't trust X, Y and Z, so what if A is a lie as well? And trust me, you can trust B" makes them think, "oh wow, they're right about not being able to trust X, Y and Z, maybe they're right about A and B too".
And so your Donald Trumps, your Alex Jones, etc, gain power and influence, and the people who follow them feel smart because they can "see through the systemic lies". It doesn't matter that half of what they say isn't provably true because (to their followers, at least) it could be true.
So I don't think it's just American exceptionalism that's responsible. I think the whole system's so broken that it's conditioned people to be sceptical and distrustful about everything, and to try to take advantage of the broken system when they can.
There is a near 0% chance an American would read all of that, let alone understand it. They’re victims, they don’t know what they are doing.
heddersNah. There are just a lot of them, and most of them have access to the Internet.
Call me Lenny/LeniYes, though you have to remember, in most other places, the government cracks down on conspiracy theories. For example, if you live in China and believe that certain groups are secretly being mistreated, you’re going to have the authorities on your tail.
DeceptichumNo, that’s just what they want you to think.
MontaggeIlluminati
Because of, or because of?
No, we just have a majority of English speakers so you assume all stupid English speakers are American unless proven otherwise. The anti-vaccination conspiracies comes from the UK from what I can tell.
I have met several people who moved into Usa during the last years, and they all said Yes very much.
Moved from where?