Mastodawn

Jeff

@TTimo

I don't know why anyone would prefer a snap or flatpak when a deb package exists.

I'm not against either packaging system—they may be imperfect but they're at least trying to solve certain problems—but when a package exists for your _native_ package manager I don't understand why you wouldn't use it preferentially.

razze Jan 17, 2024

@jeffalyanak @TTimo cause it's much less likely to break or misbehave - especially if it's packaged, by the actual app author(s)

exahamza Jan 18, 2024

@razze @jeffalyanak @TTimo not true at all, specially if is foss.

@exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo so how do you ship a newer, older or custom version of python with a native package manager?

@razze @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo

Ah that one is easy: Simply do. Python interpreters are neatly namespaced by version, and always have been, there are currently three Python versions in Debian that can coexist just fine.

@nik @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo I don't think three are enough, and how do I patch them or use the current nightly build?

@razze @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo Nothing stops you from packaging it as a dependency, or even package your tree of vendored dependencies and install to /opt/com.example.whatever/, from a .deb package.

@nik @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo and my app will use it, if it calls python via lib or via the cmd? didn't know that

@razze @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo Per FHS (filesystem hierarchy standard), /opt/dotted.package.path is intended for you to use as $PREFIX. From there, your wrapper script in /usr/bin would just prepend it to $PATH.

One prominent package doing this is google-chrome.

@nik @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo would have been nice to know that when https://github.com/xbmc/xbmc/issues/20172 happend for e.g.

Kodi crashes continue in Arch and Debian Linux probably due to different python versions used, Flatpak Kodi doesn't crash · Issue #20172 · xbmc/xbmc

Bug report Describe the bug Here is a clear and concise description of what the problem is: Expected Behavior Here is a clear and concise description of what was expected to happen: After the numpy...

GitHub

@razze @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo For the Python case, it's even simpler because you can just install it alongside the system Python.

@razze @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo In short: What you could pack inside a Docker image, you can as well put into /opt/dotted.package.path.

@exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo e.g. Every time my distro, fedora updates major python versions (new fedora release) pgadmin starts crashing on start

Daniele Jan 18, 2024

@jeffalyanak @TTimo one reason might be that deb packages gain root privileges while installing which isn't optimal for third party apps, while it can be acceptable for system maintained repos

@fourlastor @jeffalyanak @TTimo

exahamza Jan 18, 2024

>>deb packages gain root privileges while installing

False. apt needs root privileges to install pkgs, those pkgs don't gain root privileges automatically, you'll still need to type your password if you want give them root privileges when executing those same pkgs, just like you do with flat pak, snap, etc.

Martyn Welch Jan 19, 2024

@exahamza @fourlastor @jeffalyanak @TTimo Though apt will run the pre install and post install scripts if provided in the deb and I'm fairly sure those will be run with root privileges. So the packager of the app at least does gain some access to your system with root privileges.

Daniele Jan 19, 2024

@MWelchUK @exahamza @jeffalyanak @TTimo indeed, thanks for making it more clear, I couldn't remember the exact details

exahamza Jan 19, 2024

@MWelchUK @fourlastor @jeffalyanak @TTimo that's accurate, not that missinformation above.

lizzy

Jan 25, 2024

@exahamza @fourlastor @jeffalyanak @TTimo you can install setuid binaries using apt which will allow them to gain root privs without authentication

exahamza Jan 25, 2024

@fleckenstein @fourlastor @jeffalyanak @TTimo ok

Cesar Jan 18, 2024

@jeffalyanak @TTimo The flatpak is completely contained, I know it touches nothing outside its home in ~/.var and any configured shared paths; it can even be installed in a user account which does not have root access.