Charlie StrossJan 15, 2024

Every time I see some well-meaning folks advocating "tax the rich!!" I wonder, why not think big and abolish money instead?

Money isn't merely a symptom of poverty, as Iain Banks pointed out: money creates poverty—there's a potentially infinite supply of money generated by allocating debts and issuing credit, but only certain people are permitted to accumulate it.

We need a better resource allocation system; "tax the rich" is a sticking plaster prescribed for a heart attack.

Show threadMadagascar_Sky
@cstross
The biggest issue, as you point out, is resource allocation decision. Do you go centrally decided (communism) or do you go distributed decided (capitalism). Or is there some other middle or completely different way?
Jan 15, 2024 at 9:14amWeb
Show threadCharlie StrossJan 15, 2024
@Madagascar_Sky I'm all in on fully automated luxury gay space communism as an end goal.
Show threadMadagascar_SkyJan 15, 2024
@cstross
Ok, but what kind space gay communism? The Culture, where the pet humans get communism and the rulers get everything else, or Star Trek, where everyone gets something? I feel ST has the better representation of Communism ideals, whereas The Culture has Communism as it shakes out here in our history.
Show threadChris HansonJan 15, 2024
@Madagascar_Sky @cstross This is why I describe myself as a Federationist.
Show threadCharlie StrossJan 15, 2024

@Madagascar_Sky The culture, *definitely*. ST (what I've seen of it) is highly regimented and militaristic.

(To be fair, I got half way through the pilot ep of ST:TNG and decided Star Trek was now officially dead to me; I've refused to watch any of it since then.)

Show threadMarc EtienneJan 15, 2024
@cstross @Madagascar_Sky I think the problem is that the Federation in Star Trek is not meant to be seen, Starfleet is supposed to be a tiny minority out on the edge, the regular population free to pursue whatever interests they have. But that was too hard for writers to work with when cranking out episodes.
Show threadSpace HoboJan 15, 2024
@fnordius @cstross @Madagascar_Sky They did a lot of "Starfleet exists to escort ambassadors and mediators around the galaxy to prevent wars!" stuff for a few seasons, but those stories didn't get good ratings, alas.
Show threadMark SlaterJan 15, 2024
@fnordius @cstross @Madagascar_Sky
As far as I could tell, the utopian ideals of Star Trek from TNG onwards included people being allowed to be into Classical and Jazz, but no other kind of music.
Show threadMarc EtienneJan 15, 2024

@Madagascar_Sky @cstross it's interesting how the perception of the Culture has gone from "how radical, AIs are citizens just like humans!" to "Aieee, humans are just pets to superintelligent AIs!"

All because Iain Banks hinted that some Minds secretly thought this, but a lack of structure meant it was moot. A ship would still respect the decision of its passengers, and the Culture was a very boring place to live.

Show threadMadagascar_SkyJan 15, 2024

@fnordius

No matter how much you respect your dog, how much you allow them to make their own decisions, they are nothing more than a pet. All the higher level decisions, protection, analysis, etc. was done by the AIs. The chasm between humans and the AI was too great, they were by their circumstance reduced to nothing but pets, roaming around in a world not of their making or of their control.

Show threadMarc EtienneJan 15, 2024
@Madagascar_Sky so it's somehow bad that the humans in the Culture made intelligence that surpassed their own, and accept the stewardship that intelligence provides? As I see it, the main issue is how a strong desire for personal self determination can find such a scenario repelling.
Show threadMadagascar_SkyJan 15, 2024
@fnordius
It wasn't a judgement on the culture of The Culture, just an observation.
Show threadMarc EtienneJan 15, 2024
@Madagascar_Sky a valid observation nonetheless. We instinctively bristle at the use of the word "pet", it carries so much demeaning baggage with it.
Show threadflere-imsaho 🇺🇦Jan 15, 2024
@Madagascar_Sky you do realise it's a series of books, a work of pure fiction, and created by a human at that, and that no special circumstances would allow for keeping you as pets? @cstross
Show threadRobaqueJan 15, 2024
@Madagascar_Sky @cstross or a decentralised distribution of resources via free association/anarchy :)