0x4E4FIt happens đ¤ˇ
TheInsane42How?
No dual boot here, Windows is confined to a VM. Even in the ancient times I had dual boot, last century, Linux was always the default.
faercolThereâs also the possibility of selecting the last booted OS by default instead of a specific entry
Iâm glad I never found that option. ;)
sethThis is the way. Win11 debloated in VirtualBox so far runs anything wine canât and Valve has really brought Linux gaming to a point where none of the games I want to play require me to boot Windows normally.
That is all good and fine, unless you need it to interact with hardware, which I do.
Then still you can set Linux as default. Lilo had an option to reboot with an option to set a 1 time default. (that was neat)
On dual boot hardware, I always set the one I want to default boot, which is in my case always Linux. (must still have a dual boot laptop somewhere)
Linux is my first option, I just need to have a second (Windows). And grub also has the boot once thing, but it doesnât work with BTRFS đ¤ˇ.
I donât trust btrfs. Software that relies on not breaking is b0rken in my opinion. (Unless they finally fixed that)
Yeah, it doesnât break any more. Rock solid the past few years, not a single problem.
Does grub even support mouse? Wouldnât you have to arrow down to it and hit enter?
Miku Luna \ she/itTo which question?
The second one, failed to specify that
Yeah, so you jump an entry or get confused and puck it by mistake. Happens to me all the time đ¤ˇ.
AndrewImagine having Windows installed in 2024. /s
đđ¸ đ đŞ đŞ đľ đą đŞđUnfortunately Windows is still the most user âeasy to useâ system. As much as I dislike it, itâs designed for the average tech illiterate consumer.
Iâve been flip flopping between Linux and Windows for a few years.
No, thatâs ChromeOS. Windows still assumes some knowledge that you may take for granted, but someone whoâs never used a computer before might not know.
Not gonna lie I have no fucking clue what ChromeOS is
Itâs the OS on Chromebooks
Not gonna lie I didnât know Chromebooks were a thing up until now, let alone ever assume theyâd have their own OS.
thank you
Iâm a little surprised considering their aggressive as campaigns, the fact theyâve existed for over 10 years and that their market share is higher than the macâs
Itâs called not keeping up with technology in general since a decade á( á )á
Seriously when I tell people Iâm tech illiterate I mean it. I canât tell ya what all the different devices mean and I got introduced to Linux because I once had to recover data from my broken Windows computer a decade ago and my pal gave me a disk. That was Ubuntu of all things too!
Fair enough, I guess youâre the first tech illiterate I meet on such a niche social media as Lemmy
I really only go where my friends drag me to. Same pal who introduced me to Linux, introduced me to Lemmy
With all the UI changes on every version in the last few years that simply isnât true. Windows is becoming harder and harder to use even if you know what you are doing, much less if you donât know half the computer related terminology.
Actually, not really. Itâs becoming more like what a smart device would look/feel, which is what most people are accustomed to anyway by now. Sure, options and settings get removed left and right, but that is not a concern for your every day Joe. They just need something to do their taxes in or watch a movie or play a few dumb clips on YT, thatâs it. Oh and of course it comes preinstalled with the computer, so they can do all that out of the box, great!
You ask any person that uses MS Office whether they like the pre-2007 menu layout (1997-2003) of Office or the new (post-2007) menu layout, youâll always get the same answer, the post-2007 is better. Why? I really have no idea, but they say itâs better. Maybe itâs the thing with the icon buttons, or just having a ribbon with the most used tools, IDK. My point is, LibreOffice uses the pre-2007 classical layout. For most people, this is confusing. I find it simple and elegant, the way a GUI text/spreadsheet editor should look and feel. But, than again, Iâm with computers since I was a kid, so drop down menus are not a new thing for me. People rarely use any menu thatâs not a full screen one (or at least one thatâs big enough to take away at least half the screen). Why? IDK, but I think smart devices are to blame for that.
options and settings get removed left and right,
That is bad but what bothers me more is that they get moved every time they publish a new version and for no real reason considering the average person wonât access them anyway.
They want even those power users that are used to tweaking the OS to not tweak the OS and just get used to the new defaults (whatever they might be). A perfect example being no thin taskbar in Win11. Why? IDK, you tell me đ¤ˇ. Not everyone has a FullHD monitor (I donât), but hey, maybe you need to buy a new one đ. Consumerism maybe behind this, but I canât be certain.
In any case, most users will eventually get accustomed to the new defaults. Very few users will say âf thisâ and switch to another OS and they donât actually care about those users, cuz they would have switched eventually anyway (if it wasnât for this, some other thing most probably).
Unfortunately, Windows becoming better and better. You can literally run Linux while running Windows (thatâs why coders still use Windows) and now you can even remove pre installed bloatware. Can you imagine? They even copy KDE look!
Are you talking about WSL!? WSL is not even close to actual Linux. Additionally, if I need to run Linux while using Windows, I will be using a VM like a seasoned professional, not the Windows equivalent of Wine in 2008.
Can you describe the essentials of what WSL is? Does it map UNIX file structure to Windowsâ one? Can I access the Windows FS through it? Does it have POSIX commands?
I heard/seen a lot of people using either WSL or âUbuntu terminalâ and I donât have any interest because I donât plan on using anything like this in my life, but I do want to at least understand what benefits it brings and can you replicate the true Linux terminal experience on Windows without creating a VM that have different FS from the host. Basically, I want to know if I still have any strings that I can pull to convert people to Linux, because there amount of such strings decreases every so slightly with every year, it seems.
Put simply, Linux is a kernel; WSL is a partial emulator of that kernel with exceedingly little support for the programs that attract people to it.
As one popular example, thereâs no support for anything graphical. Iâve heard a lot about how the feature is coming, but Iâve yet to meet anyone who got it to work.
Under-the-hood, you are still using the bloated Windows kernel, a now 30-year-old file system which was flawed to begin with (NTFS) or something newish thatâs closely related to it, and youâre facing the same exhausting privacy violations that MS has been in hot water for; except you get to do it with bash instead.
I tried it on my laptop that had Windows 11 pre-installed, and I cannot imagine how theyâre attracting anyone other than middle management and freshmen boot camp engineers with it. Apparently they found out that Ubuntu could be side-loaded in two minutes and panicked or something.
Thanks. Yeah, Iâve heard about WSL2 (as if the first implementation shouldnât have also been the last one). But many probably refer to both as WSL without version number.
Sure thing.
Stop enabling normies, make them become tech literate or send them back to the stone-age (preferable).
Thatâs not enabling, itâs just how people are⌠most people anyway. They wonât become texh literate of you send them to computer classes or tell them they need to learn stuff. Most people are lazy when it comes to using their brain. Itâs just how things are đ¤ˇ.
Imagine having a CD in 2024 /s
Until I saw the /s I felt extremely old
cyanarchyNot to suggest optical media is dead and forgotten but I also havenât had a computer with a disk drive in a decade.
Yeah, it's a DVD now, right?
... Right?
They do still out-sell BDs by more than 2:1, at least for movies and TV.
Hell, I still burn stuff to DVDs đ¤ˇ.
TimeSquirrelI can't imagine walking around and just assuming everything is a magic black box and not have the slightest curiosity about how something works.
Except for the fact, that you do that to plenty of other disciplines of life. It is simply that some people need a computer to work, they donât need one as a hobby. They donât want to âlearn a new thingâ they want their machine to output some calculations in excel. Same as you donât learn woodworking when ordering a table from Ikea, or learning medicine when going to a checkup.
Same as you donât learn woodworking when ordering a table from Ikea, or learning medicine when going to a checkup.
Maybe I'm different than most, but I DO wonder how that table is made, and I do try to educate myself on how the medicines I take actually work. There's been times I've wasted almost an entire day binging Wikipedia.
A day on wikipedia doesnât get you âinstalled linux and is actively using it at workâ level of knowledge. For cars, the better analogy would be âI can replace the transmission in my carâ. Everyone knows how âcomputers workâ. Not a lot of people know how to install a different OS.
Anyone who wants to install a different OS on a regular desktop is able to do it quite easily, if they can read instructions on a website and an hour or two. Itâs similar to swapping tires, which is not difficult but itâs important to read up/get shown how to do it.
But maybe I overestimate the difficulty of replacing the transmission.
Exactly, good analogy đ.
Youâre an inqusitive mind (so am I) and there is nothing wrong with that.
But, do understand that most people arenât. Either because they didnât have proper guidance when they were young or just have no interest in involving themselves in new things, doesnât really matter, the fact is that, yes, most people donât really care how stuff works.
You might surround yourself with people that are like you, so you donât see the other ones. Trust me when I say this, most people are not like you. Iâd say about 5 to 10% of people are like you, thatâs it.
I donât think I really do. I always want to be able to fix all of the things I own so I always like to understand how they work. I donât always actually end up learning enough about them but itâs not from lack of curiosity
The same thing might apply to people that just donât know how to install another OS.
Iâll take my wife as an example, she knows how to work on a computer (Windows) in her dreams. Spreadsheets, documents, media, you name it. But, does she know how to work the command line? Absolutely not. If her Windows license is about to expire, she calls me. Her files get mangled up, she calls me. Itâs not her job to know these things, itâs mine, sheâs a social worker, I work in IT.
Believe it or not, not everyone is intersted in tech. Most people just live out their lives oblivious to how stuff works.
Like me for example, I have almost 0 interest in medicine. The human body is not exactly a black box to me, but I donât usually remember deseases names and stuff like that, even though some people remember all those things without putting too much effort into it.
Medical stuff is not comparable to OS that you use on a daily basis. Everything just boils down that Windows was pre installed on such a huge amount of machines that âyou have to be tech savvyâ or whatever to use Linux. And the fact that no one wants to install anything that wasnât installed the first time, makes it that much harder to switch to Linux. But I believe that we all are slowly spreading the word of Linux more and more with each year. We definitely will have a year of Linux for sure (eventually).
Everything just boils down that Windows was pre installed on such a huge amount of machines that âyou have to be tech savvyâ or whatever to use Linux.
Yes, I would agree that having Windows preinstalled on almost every brand name PC/laptop there is out there is the main reason why things are what they are.
But, Iâd also argue that, from your everyday userâs stand point, Windows is a lot easier to get office work done. Everything is pretty much GUI based, there is no terminal in Windows (cmd and PowerShell are not the terminal, you canât do everything you can in a GUI in the cmd or in PowerShell, and vice versa, so itâs not the same), so from a regular userâs perspective, things are simpler.
And the fact that no one wants to install anything that wasnât installed the first time, makes it that much harder to switch to Linux.
Why bother changing something that works and gets the job done đ¤ˇâŚ plus, they gotta learn new things if they did that, why make their lives harder.
Not everyone cares about libre software⌠or even know it exists.
But I believe that we all are slowly spreading the word of Linux more and more with each year. We definitely will have a year of Linux for sure (eventually).
If this does happen, this wonât be within a year, it will be within several years (or a decade).
But, I do agree that there are changes in a positive direction. Most software products (slosed source ones) now have at least a Debian/Ubuntu .deb package (which wasnât the case 10 years ago, which wasnât that long ago) and even do customer support for Linux (but only limited to that particular flavor of Linux which they provide the packages for⌠not an ideal scenario, but itâs not bad either).
So, yeah, Iâm optimistic, but not too much. It might eventually happen, but not in the near future IMO.
Windows is a lot easier to get office work done. Everything is pretty much GUI based
No, most popular Linux distros have every GUI app you need to do your office work. What do you need? Office suite, file manager and browser? Check, check, check. Moreover, you donât have any office preinstalled on Windows and you even have to buy it (and the OS itself), or create a Microsoft account and use online, feature- and Internet-limited version. (With something like Fedora or Ubuntu you can run the live version from RAM from a USB drive, get done with your work, and you donât even have to install the OS, let alone buy it.)
Why bother changing something that works and gets the job done đ¤ˇâŚ plus, they gotta learn new things if they did that, why make their lives harder.
The point is that it would work the other way around, if Linux was mainstream (Iâm already wet) and Windows was in the minority.
Not everyone cares about libre software⌠or even know it exists.
Yes.
If this does happen, this wonât be within a year, it will be within several years (or a decade).
We can only dream if this will happen within a year. But decades already have passed and look where Linux is at: dominating server market share, all the IoT devices, government related stuff, developers, free-believers, FOSS enjoyers. We have SteamOS, Steamdeck, other handheld devices that are Linux-based, Proton, Lutris, Wine and other stuff. We have a lot of progress already. Desktop market share year by year does show that Linux and alike take a bigger and bigger cut. Withing a decade, everything will probably run on RISC-V architecture (something already does) and Linux will probably only become stronger and its community and market share will only grow.
Most software products [âŚ] now have at least a Debian/Ubuntu .deb package
Well, maybe not most, but definitely noticeable, if you search for/use it. I was very surprised to see Cisco Packet Tracer being available in a native .deb package (surprisingly, no one has created a comparable FOSS alternative thus far).
limited to that particular flavor of Linux which they provide the packages for
Side note. You donât always need the support, and the packages themselves can and do become available on other platforms. AUR and Nix repositories are the largest ones that have community-created packages that only available on Ubuntu or Fedora, etc.
So, yeah, Iâm optimistic, but not too much. It might eventually happen, but not in the near future IMO.
Iâm sure the year of Linux will happen before I die, or at least the next generation after me will have it. The progress is really huge and kinda becomes faster with every few years.
No, most popular Linux distros have every GUI app you need to do your office work. What do you need? Office suite, file manager and browser? Check, check, check. Moreover, you donât have any office preinstalled on Windows and you even have to buy it (and the OS itself), or create a Microsoft account and use online, feature- and Internet-limited version.
Yes, but have you looked at how LibreOffice looks? It looks like MS Office 1997-2003. Personally, I love that, but ask any MS Office user out there thatâs not into tech and just wants to get the job done, youâll always get the same answer, MS Office post 2007 with the ribbon interface is a lot better. People are used to that. If theyâd have to chose between spending a little money and learning something new, guess what, they choose spending a little money. I know, it baffles me as well, but numbers donât lie.
And they usually see the whole MS account tied with office stuff thing as a feature, not as a drawback. Sure, they donât get to use all the tools that the sute can offer, but who needs calcs in spreadsheets or math equations in a word editor anyway, thatâs for geeks đ.
Basically, of they can write a few words and insert an image here and there, thatâs more than enough for most peopleâs needs. Sure, they pay for that, which they can get for free, but you donât see LibreOffice ads in Windows, do you đ¤ˇ.
Side note. You donât always need the support, and the packages themselves can and do become available on other platforms. AUR and Nix repositories are the largest ones that have community-created packages that only available on Ubuntu or Fedora, etc.
Thay is what I actually meant, we kinda troubleshoot our own packages, even if theyâre repackaged from a closed source deb/rpm. If the dependencies are there and compiled against whatever is needed for the package to run, I donât really see a reason not to offer support for other distros, or at least make a subforum or whatever for those that want to repackage stuff for other distros, so they can at least gather in one place and discuss issues regarding repackaging, with some guidelines> from the support staff of the product. But unfortunatelly, thatâs rarely the case, that was my point.
I thought linux dominating server space was natural, after downfall of unix. Doesnât it?
Personally Iâm not tech illiterate; Iâm just too lazy to reboot every time I want to hop on the decks and do some DJing or music production. Or play one of the few games that wonât run on Linux. Or watch something in HDR.
I wish there was a way to instantly jump back and forth between OSes with a key combo, without having to resort to any sort of VM fuckery. Like how for a brief moment in the 90s you could buy an expansion card for your Mac that was an entire Windows PC on a single board. You do exactly what I described: instantly go back and forth between Mac and PC without having to close any programs. Why isnât this a thing anymore?