Lucas PopeJan 3, 2024
Whoever designed the Mac pointer hit a home run 40 years ago and it hasn't touched ground yet
Show threadJoshua A.C. NewmanJan 3, 2024

@dukope Susan Kare.

Incredibly influential designer.

(Edit: Read the thread below: its perfection seems to be an artifact of the Mac's square pixel interpretation of the Lisa's bitmap arrow, which looked narrower because the pixels were vertical. But whoever drew it for the Lisa drew it just before Kare was at Apple!)

Show threadLucas PopeJan 3, 2024
@JoshuaACNewman Kare is a personal hero of mine but from what I could dig up (not much), this cursor design narrowly predates her.
Show threadJoshua A.C. NewmanJan 3, 2024

@dukope Huh. I’m pretty sure I’ve seen her bitmap sketches, but perhaps she was just mapping it out?

What have you found?

Show threadChris Silverman 🌻Jan 3, 2024

@JoshuaACNewman @dukope I think the Mac pointer came from Lisa. The Lisa pointer is, as far as I can tell, identical to the Mac one. I doubt Kare could have designed it; she was hired in early 1983, and the Lisa UI had been finalized by that point.

My guess is that the original pointer was designed by Bill Atkinson. He was one of the folks who visited PARC, so he'd seen the Alto pointer, and he also designed the Lisa UI (he invented the menu bar, too) https://www.folklore.org/Rosings_Rascals.html

Folklore.org: Rosing's Rascals

Show threadJoshua A.C. Newman

@csilverman @dukope Thank you!

My memory is that the Lisa cursor was skinnier? I’m curious how it evolved, too.

Jan 3, 2024 at 4:35pmWeb
Show threadChris Silverman 🌻Jan 3, 2024

@JoshuaACNewman @dukope
That might've been because the Lisa had rectangular pixels instead of square ones (still blows my mind that there was ever a debate about the shape of pixels, but square pixels were not a self-evident truth in the early 80s).

I didn't do a pixel-by-pixel comparison of the Lisa and Mac pointers; I was just looking closely at screenshots, so they may vary slightly. The Mac arrow is definitely closer to the Lisa design than the Alto, though: larger arrowhead, shorter tail.

Show threadJoshua A.C. NewmanJan 3, 2024
@csilverman @dukope
Yeah, this looks like the one I remember. I think it adopted a Mac-like shape later.
Show threadChris Silverman 🌻Jan 3, 2024

@JoshuaACNewman Hmm yeah, I think it's an aspect ratio thing. Check this out (this is a fantastic site to browse anyway, if you're into classic GUI design): https://guidebookgallery.org/screenshots/lisaos31

If you look at the small "wrong aspect ratio" text under the screenshots and click "ignore", you'll see the Lisa UI converted to use square pixels. At that point, the arrow looks like a pixel-for-pixel match of the Mac arrow.

GUIdebook > Screenshots > Lisa OS 3.1

Show threadJoshua A.C. NewmanJan 3, 2024
@csilverman It sure is!
Show threadJoshua A.C. NewmanJan 3, 2024
@csilverman cool site.
Show threadLisa HamiltonJan 22, 2024
@csilverman @JoshuaACNewman Oh this is wonderful. I am going to spend the next hour reminiscing now lol
Show threadPulkoMandyJan 4, 2024
@csilverman @JoshuaACNewman @dukope I don't think there was so much of a debate, it' s more a question of what crt tube aspect ratio you have, video timings your deflectors can handle, etc. It's easy to squeeze pixels vertically as much as you want, but not so easy to add more lines to the display.
So, non-square pixels allowed to have more pixels with pretty much no changes to the display hardware.
Show threadMetafrastisJan 6, 2024
@csilverman Vertical Pixels were a thing on Amiga computers up to the 90ies.