Snoopy

The EU common charger : USB-C

https://jlai.lu/post/3227375

The EU common charger : USB-C - jlai.lu

cross-posted from: https://jlai.lu/post/3226934 [https://jlai.lu/post/3226934] > [https://jlai.lu/pictrs/image/30d0a9c2-bf46-49a9-84b7-9fc92fac469e.jpeg] > > The wait is finally over. From 2024, USB-C will be the common standard for electronic devices in the EU – and we have already seen the impact ! > > It means > * 🔌The same charger for all phones, tablets and cameras > * ⚡ Harmonised fast-charging technology > * 🔄Reduced e-waste > > One charger to rule them all. > > Now, a reality. > > Learn more about the #EUCommonCharger here: https://europa.eu/!hwjj3G [https://europa.eu/!hwjj3G] > > Unbundling the sale of a charger from the sale of the electronic device . > > >The ‘common charging’ requirements will apply to all handheld mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones, headsets, portable speakers, handheld videogame consoles, e-readers, earbuds, keyboards, mice, and portable navigation systems as of 2024. These requirements will also apply to laptops as of 2026. Such transition periods will give industry sufficient time to adapt before the entry into application. > > >Consumers will be able to purchase a new electronic device without a new charger. This will limit the number of chargers on the market or left unused. Reducing production and disposal of new chargers is estimated to reduce the amount of electronic waste by 980 tonnes yearly > > >Producers will need to provide relevant visual and written information about charging characteristics, including information on the power the device requires and whether it supports fast charging. This will help consumers understand if their existing chargers meet their new device’s requirements and/or help them select a compatible charger. Combined with the other measures, this will help consumers to limit the number of new chargers purchased and save at least €250 million a year on unnecessary charger purchases. > > > — > > L’attente est finalement terminée. À partir de 2024, l’USB-C deviendra la norme commune pour les appareils électroniques dans l’UE – et nous avons déjà vu son impact ! > > Cela signifie > > * 🔌Le même chargeur pour tous les téléphones, tablettes et appareils photo > * ⚡ Technologie de charge rapide harmonisée > * 🔄Réduction des déchets électroniques > > Un chargeur pour les gouverner tous. Maintenant, une réalité. Pour en savoir plus sur le #EUCommonCharger, cliquez ici : https://europa.eu/!hwjj3G [https://europa.eu/!hwjj3G] > > >Les exigences de « charge commune » s’appliqueront à tous les téléphones mobiles portables, tablettes, appareils photo numériques, écouteurs, casques, haut-parleurs portables, consoles de jeux vidéo portables, liseuses électroniques, écouteurs, claviers, souris et systèmes de navigation portables à partir de 2024. Ces exigences s’appliquera également aux ordinateurs portables à partir de 2026. De telles périodes de transition donneront à l’industrie suffisamment de temps pour s’adapter avant l’entrée en application. > > >Les consommateurs pourront acheter un nouvel appareil électronique sans nouveau chargeur. Cela limitera le nombre de chargeurs sur le marché ou inutilisés. On estime que la réduction de la production et de l’élimination des nouveaux chargeurs permettrait de réduire la quantité de déchets électroniques de 980 tonnes par an. > > > Les producteurs devront fournir des informations visuelles et écrites pertinentes sur les caractéristiques de charge, y compris des informations sur la puissance requise par l’appareil et s’il prend en charge une charge rapide. Cela aidera les consommateurs à comprendre si leurs chargeurs existants répondent aux exigences de leur nouvel appareil et/ou les aidera à sélectionner un chargeur compatible. Combinée aux autres mesures, cette mesure aidera les consommateurs à limiter le nombre de nouveaux chargeurs achetés et à économiser au moins 250 millions d’euros par an sur les achats inutiles de chargeurs

Dec 30, 2023 at 1:56pmWeb
Show threadAbraham Lincoln 🇺🇲Dec 30, 2023
French language is so cringe 😬
Show threadLlewellynDec 30, 2023
No baguette for you, Kevin!
Show threadsydDec 30, 2023
nice troll account 👍
Show threadTonyTonyChopperDec 30, 2023
I needed this comment like I need a hole in the head
Show threadRobotToasterDec 30, 2023
What happens when usb-c can’t physically supply enough power for future batteries?
Show threadakilouDec 30, 2023
Then we change the standard in the future
Show threadTenderfootGungiDec 30, 2023
But this law is going to make changing when a better standard should take over. Imagine if this was passed 5 years ago when the terrible one sided USB was common. The only group that will have the power in the future to update it is the USB group, and that is a group of manufacturers that have a driving goal of absolute cheapness at heart, not innovation. This is a terrible law.
Show threadTheMurphyDec 30, 2023

That’s why it wasn’t passed “5 years ago”. Because it sucked too much.

USB-C doesn’t, and that’s why you could make the rule. Fuck your potential innovation on the cost of 1.000 tons e-waste a year.

Show threadnfhDec 30, 2023
And the downside of too many chargers was very real. They tried to solve it without the costs of a binding law, and Apple refused to join in. So now they’re stuck with a good connector, and the replacement process for it will probably be a bit worse than it otherwise would have been, whenever it happens
Show threadjabjoeDec 30, 2023
We tried your way. It failed. We ended up with no standard and a mess of chargers.
Show threadabhibeckertDec 30, 2023

It should be difficult. You need to convince ten billion people to buy new chargers if you’re going to switch to a new charging standard and often several chargers per person (five at home? three at work? two in your car?).

Manufacturing and distributing 50 billion or so chargers only makes sense if your new standard is a lot better than USB-C. And if it is, then it won’t be difficult to convince people to move to it.

Show threadbarsoapDec 30, 2023

The only group that will have the power in the future to update it is the USB group

No, it isn’t. The law includes language that allows the Commission to upgrade the standard that applies, not the USB-IF. If the USB-IF does something stupid the Commission can veto it for the whole EU market, which likely means that the USB-IF won’t be stupid. The standard to be used in the EU will never fall behind the currently adopted one (at least when the Commission is competent and it generally is, in these matters. They’re quite good at technocracy).

Overall EU doesn’t really care what the standard is, only that there is a standard and that it’s sensible, and thus let manufacturers figure out the details on their own, but that doesn’t mean that the EU is handing the USB-IF legislative powers: The commission will only rubber-stamp what comes out of the USB-IF if they indeed have no objections.

Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023

Dunno, probably a new standard. Or a standarised battery ? I’m mot an expert in this area.

I think thats a good opportunity to slow technology and focus on our earth ressource management and waste. We can wait 20 years before buying new machine and set up new standard ? Then every producers test and create new prototype in their lab along technological foundation to help with their research ?

Show threadTonyTonyChopperDec 30, 2023
It can already do 240 watts which is really excessive for a mobile computer. Technology trends toward lower power requirements, not higher.
Show threadScribbdDec 30, 2023
Say that to the graphics devision of computing please.
Show threadTonyTonyChopperDec 31, 2023
Year after year it takes less power for the equivalent amount of processing capability. These devices only require so much now because people demanded they get exponentially stronger
Show threadstealthnerdDec 30, 2023

I don’t think there are any 240 watt chargers on the market though despite it theoretically being supported. Last I read, there were some doubts around if it was truly feasible. Laptops that require more than 90 or so watts still come with proprietary chargers because they can’t charge at full rate over USB-C.

My Dell laptop is 240 watts and the only way to charge it at full rate over USB is to buy a proprietary $250 charger from Dell that provides two USB cords that must be plugged in together to achieve a combined 240 watts. The 90 watt charger from my old laptop won’t keep it running for more than an hour.

Anyway, hopefully we see 240 watt USB-C in the future but at the moment it seems to be vaporware. Maybe this ruling will push it forward.

Show threadholycrapwtfatheismDec 30, 2023
There's 240w usb-c on every common marketplace for US market, is that not the case for eu?
Show threadstealthnerdDec 30, 2023

I’m speaking from a US point of view. To my knowledge there are no 240 watt USB-C chargers in existence.

There are a handful that claim 240 watts but upon closer inspection only provide a max of ~100 watts per port.

There are cables sold with a 240 watt rating but no actual chargers.

Show thread𝕽𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖙Dec 30, 2023
The Framework Laptop 16 has a 180W PD charger. It’s not the full 240W but it’s using that new standard and the laptop will work with 240W chargers when they hit the market.
Show threadjuneDec 30, 2023
So there’s not a 240w charger on the market.
Show thread𝕽𝖔𝖔𝖙𝖎𝖊𝖘𝖙Dec 30, 2023
I have no idea
Show threadhanslDec 30, 2023
This is disingenuous. There are 240W chargers, just not “on the market”. If you really want one you can contact the manufacturers for an engineer sample. But since you’re likely not a device manufacturer, you won’t have any use of it since there’s no 240W sink available “on the market”.
Show threadjuneDec 30, 2023
You just affirmed in this comment that there are none on the market. I’m not being disingenuous, just pedantic.
Show threadhanslDec 30, 2023
The original discussion was whether or not USB-C is future proof. You’re the one who moved the goalpost to “on the market now”.
Show threadjuneDec 30, 2023
Go read the thread again bro
Show threadabhibeckertDec 30, 2023

They definitely exist. But there aren’t many devices that are compatible with them - the 240W chargers run at much higher voltage than regular USB (which I think caps out at 100W).

Also - only really large batteries (ones that you can’t take with you on an airplane for example) are able to charge at 240W without overheating. So there’s just not much demand for a charger that powerful.

Show threadbarsoapDec 30, 2023
Not excessive at all for a laptop, a gaming laptop may burn 400W at full tilt. Max power consumption really is more of a matter of how much heat dissipation the form factor allows in those instances: Just because you find a way to do more computation with less watts doesn’t mean that people won’t use it to put more computation in the same space.
Show threadsydDec 30, 2023
I really like this. Being able to just buy bunch of newest generation Type-C and using it everywhere is awesome.
Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023
The best part is that you can help your friends. :3
Show thread🐑🇸 🇭 🇪 🇪 🇵 🇱 🇪🐑Dec 30, 2023

It is but it also comes with issues with some devices.

Nintendo Switch is a particularly bad case. The Switch’s battery actually breaks if connected to a third party charger. There is no indication that you shouldn’t connect a regular USB-C cable to it.

Mind you that’s also just a single case. I can’t recall any other cases of USB-C devices not being supposed to draw power from USB-C and ending up frying itself

Show threadAA5BDec 30, 2023
That’s what I was hoping but here in the US it’s still difficult to find charging blocks with multiple USB-C ports, and they’re targeted to high end devices, and we still have too many devices with older and nonstandard connectors. I know it’s not our standard but was certainly hoping theEU could create some sanity for all of us
Show threadPlayer2Dec 30, 2023
It’s not difficult to find though it can be expensive. I’ve been using Anker multi port type c chargers for years
Show threadTrainguyromDec 31, 2023

it’s still difficult to find charging blocks with multiple USB-C ports

They exist but you won’t find them on the shelf of overly cheap chargers at the grocery store or gas station. Seems most of them cost around $50 or more if they’re worth using. Personally I’ve had good luck with Anker (which I just saw in a target electronics section yesterday!), and I’ve heard good things about uGreen on Amazon.

I currently use a 65 watt gAn charger with 3 ports when I work from home to keep my work laptop topped off plus my phone and one other bonus USB C device. My work laptop complains about the low power charger if I have anything else plugged in but is otherwise fine, and it keeps everything nicely charged at a very rapid pace

Show threadAA5BDec 31, 2023
Angler has done great products for sure, but how about a cheap 3 port: so far I have my phone, watch and Kindle on usb-c, and only the phone can use any significant power. The three together can use at most , say 30w, and I’d be happy with much less since I just need it fast enough to charge overnight
Show threadTrainguyromDec 31, 2023
I got my current charger for about $35 on sale, and it seems the prices are slowly falling, but you certainly have to hunt around a bit. On the upside they seem to now cost less than 3 separate similar quality chargers. I’d say do some hunting around especially online and see what you can find
Show threadAA5BDec 31, 2023
Huh, sure enough, I quickly found a no-name charger for <$20 with three usb-c ports, totaling 35w. (Actually seems too cheap to trust, but it’s great to see it exists). It looks like there is much better choice/availability than when I last looked back in September
Show threadanlumoDec 30, 2023
Some Chinese manufacturers are already working on undermining this by releasing 12V non-PD devices that use the plug. Those devices are not compatible with regular chargers and if you use their power supply for something else that device will be destroyed (because it’s designed for 5V not 12).
Show threadunexposedhazardDec 30, 2023
The sale of those things will not be legal in the EU so no need to worry.
Show threadjabjoeDec 30, 2023
To be fair, that is true of a lot of dropship stuff on Amazon and EBay already. Claiming EC marking and the like they just don’t meet. The EU needs to come down hard on these market platforms. It’s unfair on legitimate manufacturers and bad/unsafe for consumers.
Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023
Can you share a good source here, i will enjoy reading it :)
Show threadanlumoDec 30, 2023
This is a good video about it: www.youtube.com/watch?v=ByxMSOXVyrc
Some USB C 12V Adapters can break your equipment

YouTube
Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023
Thank a lot :)
Show threadyukijoouDec 30, 2023
i mean, you likely already could get some out-of-spec chinese chargers… that’s Always been a risk when goong for low quality stuff!
Show threadAbraham Lincoln 🇺🇲Dec 30, 2023
Was it really necessary to include the french 🥖 🏳️part?
Show threadDamageDec 30, 2023
Yes
Show threadahornsirupDec 30, 2023
Appât faible, pote.
Show threadcaptainastronautDec 30, 2023
I just wish there was a standard for marking the cables, so you could look at the cable and tell what it was capable of. All the cables and chargers look the same but have wildly different capabilities. 
Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023

Yeah i discovered that and i was extremely furious. I bought a usbc cable around 10€ and it wasn’t working because the device only supported a certain type of usbc. Apparently, there is some info about information in the eu website.

But i’m not able to understand any technical part…i just want a color : yellow charger/cable go with yellow port. Etc.

Show threadabhibeckertDec 30, 2023

i’m not able to understand any technical part

I’ll break it down for you - it’s a long list but easy to understand:

  • Some cables have four internal wires. Others have over a dozen wires.
  • Some have thin wires, some have thick wires. The thick ones cost more and are less flexible - the main benefit is they can be longer while charging quickly.
  • Some cables have the internal wires wrapped in plastic. Others have them wrapped in plastic then that’s wrapped in a metal shield, then that’s wrapped in another plastic layer. The latter is more reliable and not just for the cable itself (without shielding, the cable can interfere with other electronics that are near the cable - such as your computer or phone.
  • Some are just ordinary cabling, and some have complex circuitry embedded in the cable to run advanced algorithms to remove noise from the cable - this is necessary to achieve high data rates at long cable lengths.
  • Nearly all use copper cables. A few use fibre optic cables. This can handle even longer cable lengths
  • Some cables are just like “whatever this will do”, and others are well designed and carefully manufactured/tested/etc.
  • That’s just the basics - I could go on.

i just want a color : yellow charger/cable go with yellow port. Etc.

There would need to be something like a hundred colors. The USB standards body is pushing cable manufacturers to use labels that show data rates (gigabits per second) and power capabilities (watts). That will help a lot, but for all the other stuff (especially shielding and general quality…) you need to rely on either brand reputation or third party tests that either cut the cable open or run it through a CT scan.

Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023

Well i didn’t expect ton of features. I just wanted a simple cable to transfer data. According to the cable notice, it should. But fiio sold a device with an proprietary usbc cable that can only transfert data in one direction. And no usbc-usbc can connect to it, i have to buy a fiio’s cable as apple’s lightening.

Then i dig and discovered this whole usb-c mess. It breaks intoperability. That’s why i was mad. It’s inefficient and wasteful…and no vendors were able to help me when i asked which cable can work with it.

They don’t know cable as you do, and i guess i have to take lesson on cable myself as i can’t trust manufacturer nor vendors that are as knowledgeable as me. I should have gone to the hacker fab lab first.

Show threadSnoopyDec 30, 2023
And thank a lot for this great recap, i’m saving it. ☺️
Show threadcmnyboDec 30, 2023
Even worse, many of the features require a ID chip in the cable, so a simple continuity test can’t determine what the cable actually supports.
Show threadrockSlayerDec 30, 2023
It’s because the USB-IF is fucking terrible at their jobs and can’t figure out how to name things in a meaningful way.
Show threadKptnAutismusDec 30, 2023

and the naming scheme doesn’t make it any better, “USB 3.2 Gen 3 with USB PD and/or CuickCharge” just doesn’t make sense to rationally thinking people.

how about “USB C-C up to X amount of mbytes and 100W charging”?

Show threadtowerfulDec 30, 2023
And WiFi is going the opposite direction. From 802.1a/b/ax/whatever to WiFi 5, 6 etc.
(Although the MIMO chains can get a bit more complex, but still fairly simple compared to the USB bs)
Show threadKptnAutismusDec 30, 2023
this is the way.
Show threadSnipingNinjaDec 31, 2023
The last one is what’s happening now, or was that a fever dream I had
Show threadTunaLobsterDec 31, 2023
That’s the latest guidance. Manufactures are free to do whatever they want though.
Show threadbambooDec 31, 2023
The charging side is complicated to mark accurately because it has to consider current and voltage. Like, a cable might be able to do 60W, but only at 2A@30V, 3A@20V would melt the cable.