They were certainly negligent in not properly assessing McCain (who was already restrained) prior to ketamine admin. Once ketamine was given, they then also failed to monitor and recognize cardiac arrest.

This case will likely lead to change in paramedic emergency care protocols.

I sort of feel sorry for the paramedics in the sense that they were too complacent and should have told the cops “no” when they tried to dictate patient care (as in, ‘you need to sedate this dangerous person’). I work in healthcare too, so I’m familiar with cops trying to dictate medical care and the importance of advocating for your pt when that happens. It can be intimidating to tell a cop to fuck off, but sometimes you have to do it.

I understand you work in health but I work as a paramedic and have a few thoughts. First, it is very common for us to go into a scene with law enforcement and sedate someone if we believe it to be appropriate. Excessive fighting with law enforcement and being tased repeatedly tends to be followed by death. So, it is much easier and safer for everyone to sedate someone.

What protocols do you think will change? Should we just let people die fighting with law enforcement? I have mixed thoughts on the details here if we as paramedics can be prosecuted if someone has a negative reaction to a medication, however, I don’t think that is the case here. It says they gave an extra 150-200mg of ketamine, not sure why, not sure what their protocols are but if their dose is something like 5mg/kg IM like protocols I’ve worked under then maybe they thought it was an appropriate dose because we are bad at estimating weight. Regardless, it is industry standard to monitor capnography when sedating a patient. If they didn’t because of complacency, that might be on them if there isn’t any extenuating circumstance but I can’t think of any that would reasonably justify not monitoring capnography.

Many try sedating the cops? They’ll be less aggressive and less likely to escalate.

I do think that may have helped in this situation. In a more broad sense my point is I would be disappointed if a paramedic didn’t do something to stop someone from dying. We don’t have to agree on the administration of sedatives but I’d rather me or my family be sedated and transported to the hospital instead of situations continuing to escalate while fighting with law enforcement that may lead to someone being killed.

To be clear, I don’t know the full details of this specific case, as I said in my original comment, there isn’t a reason I can think of for the medics not monitoring capnography, that’s industry standard as it will show in real time when someone stops breathing and allow us to take over. If the paramedics did not monitor capnography and the patient died then that is most likely negligence that resulted in someone’s death which is unacceptable. However if they did everything appropriately and recognized the change in condition and addressed it and the patient still died then then it’s hard to fault them, apart from giving the incorrect dose of ketamine, tho just giving an extra 200mg of ketamine will not cause someone to die but it can cause unwanted side effect that if unrecognized or untreated could lead to someone’s death.

They administered too much sedation and failed to bother to make sure he didn’t die of it by monitoring him thereafter. They are not just negligent, they are outrageously negligent. It’s easy to fault them which is why they were found guilty. I’m not sure why you find it hard.