đ vanta rainbow black đ41% of fediverse instances have blocked threads so far!!!
corbinFOSS bros: weâre all about user choice!
also FOSS bros: no not like that
This is like inviting the Catholic church in an institution specifically built to protect former victims of same and similar institutions.
Given that anyone can start an instance and federate with Threads, or join an instance that does, freedom of choice is unaffected.
Are you seriously comparing systemic rape and abuse to your âbig company badâ ideology?
Thatâs fucked up.
What a ridiculous argument. Theyâre not saying big tech companies are necessarily as abusive as those other organisations, theyâre saying people might want to avoid them in the same way.
By contrast your comment, intentionally or otherwise, suggests the only valid reason to avoid interacting with an organisation is if you were literally raped by them. Now that is fucked up.
No itâs real simple, you lot act like these big tech companies are evil personified but happily look the other way or hand out whataboutism out like candy when it is some group, institution or ideology you support doing the same or even more fucked up shit.
Bunch of delusional fanatics.
Which group, institution or ideology specifically are you talking about? Genuinely curious. Cause I canât think of any that are the same or worse than fb/google/etc. That are supported here. Doesnât mean they donât exist, ofc, Iâm just unaware, hence the question, would you give me some examples?
ProdigalFrogMeta is partially responsible for genocide, so itâs not actually that much of a stretch, honestly.
How Facebook Became a Tool for Genocide
Thatâs literally like saying Victorinox helps support crime because people who commit crime sometimes use knives.
You are literally washing over the fact that this atrocity was fuelled and perpetrated by religious fanatics and corrupted governments.
Literally the only part which speaks about Facebook is that âsocial media may have helped spread the violent messageâ and that Facebook refused to share user data with investigators. Which without a warrant is standard practice.
You are doing the equivalent of putting pictures on a board and drawing strings between them.
They were warned multiple times that their platform was being used to fan the flames of a genocide, yet they did nothing. And their algorithm is designed to spread whatever gets the most engagement, which is usually hateful things.
proleDo you not understand how metaphors work? Nothing is being âcomparedâ here. Keep looking for things to be upset about.
This is actually a simile, not a metaphor.
A simile is a type of metaphor. All similes are metaphors, but not vice versa.
This critique of âuser choice means that every instance should try and be as open as possible and try and federate with as many compatible entities as possible, so that any user, from any instance, might find and interact with content from everywhereâ is as valid for instances blocking Threads as it is for blocking instances for allowing hate speech and bot-boosted corporate ads.
Personally, I prefer those to be blocked and have âuser choiceâ mean users choosing to participate and promote the instances they believe are more useful, because my âuser choiceâ is âI donât want all kinds of bullshit to arrive unfiltered at my feedâ.
We just donât want history repeating itself like what happened with xmpp. Do you really think facebook of all companies is joining the fediverse with good intentions? Do you really think theyâre not trying to monopolize this?
I would like to point out that xmpp still exists. Google Talk does not. WhatsApp killed xmpp, not Google
Where did they even mention Google in their comment?
Because every time this argument starts, someone mentions how they donât want the fediverse to go down the xmpp path, and the argument has its origin in this article
XMPP still exists - and I use it for chatting with one person. Nobody I know uses it. Techies I know use IRC and, more recently, Matrix. Or discord, disappointingly enough.
And I mention techies because the rest of the world is just happy with WhatsApp/Messenger/Slack et all.
I never mentioned google. And sure, xmpp exists but itâs dead and would be much better off if not for big tech giants
rglullisLast I checked, the people using XMPP are still running happily using servers and clients.
All 17 of them.
I gotta ask⊠were you around and actively using xmpp around that time?
Because I was. And xmpp struggling had nothing to do with Google
HandlesYouâre downplaying your own part, in between those two statements.
Internet rando: âI choose to enable this corporate, repeat privacy offender in stongarming its way into the open, federated webâ
How is Threads going to breach your privacy by federating with your instance? How is de federating from Threads going to protect your privacy?
sometimes, itâs just about the principle.
and if the principle is âkeep zucc the fuck away from the fediverseâ, iâm all for it.
But it doesnât keep him away. Defederation means they consume all of the data from ActivityPub, you consume none of theirs. You are creating a walled garden for them that makes it harder for Threads users to leave.
Defederation means they consume all of the data from ActivityPub, you consume none of theirs.
Itâs not that simple.
Their instance will be sent the data only if the post originates on an instance/community that is still federated with their instance. If a new post or comment is made in a community whoâs instance isnât federated with their instance, it will not be sent via ActivityPub. A more detailed explanation of how that works is in this post.
Itâs about the principal of throwing out our own principals because we hate someone!
Throwing out your principals [sic].
Please donât speak for me.
Lol I work and finance and it was pre coffee, went into default mode I guess, thanks for the correction.
And good on you for your principle being âfuck zuccâ truly a noble purpose.
Do you think this is Threadsâ final form? Embrace, extend, extinguish. This is what corporations do. Everything is a zero sum game in their minds, and they will act in the best interest of shareholders. That shit has no business here.
I was going to reply but you nailed it. Its about outmaneuvering smaller competitors and controlling the marketplace, and then harvesting user data for profit.
They can already harvest the data. Nothing on the ActivityPub is private
Sure, ignore my actual point. This is getting monotonous; enjoy Threads.
What point was that? If you donât join Threads, they donât have your data. They do have everything you publish to the Fediverse though, no matter what you do.
BuddyâŠ
Its about outmaneuvering smaller competitors and controlling the marketplace
Work on your reading retention instead of plastering your one-note hot take all over the convo. This exchange is over.
How? Everyone says some form of this, but never gives any details of how they will do that. Or how defederation will prevent that.
You are afraid that they will control the marketplace, and then turn around telling everyone to defederate, which just gives them a walled garden marketplace on a silver platter.
Yeah, yeah, parrot the line and then please explain how?
Extending means making extra functionality that others havenât implemented, so that your offering is more attractive. You use it to build a walled garden. Defederation just skips that step and does it for them. They donât even have to extend.
You missed the point of my comment. I donât need to explain how, Iâm sure theyâve got brilliant engineers working hard on it. This is just how capitalism works, Meta isnât a benevolent force here, their ultimate goal is to make money off users and their data.
I donât need to figure out exactly how they will do it to know that they will.
Ah, so just fear mongering and hoping that the fear based knee-jerk reaction isnât actually playing directly into their hands.
Dude, Meta has a terrible track record. Theyâve shown us time and time again that they are outright evil. Why would it be different this time?
Whatâs the saying? âWhen someone shows you who their are, trust them the first timeâ
In this instance, Meta has shown time and time again who they are and you still believe they will do something right.
Iâm not saying itâs different. Iâm saying that the current plan in no achieves the goal of keeping the fediverse open and out of the control of large corporations.
If you want to know how to prevent them from taking control, you better start working out the specifics of how they will do that. Otherwise your actions may end up helping them.
No one seems to have considered the possibility that Facebook are well aware of what people think of them. That they looked at the technology and thought âwe donât have to do anything, those idiots hate us so much they will do the job for us and give us the private marketplace we desireâ
Embrace, extend, extinguish.
Serious question: how?
Second question: why?
What are the mechanics by which they are going extend or extinguish the fediverse and how would they do that from a technical standpoint? Second, why when the entire fediverse with years of time behind it is a rounding error compared to a product they launched like 6 months ago. Why does Meta give a tiny shit about the fedi compared to TikTok, for example?
What are the mechanics by which they are going extend or extinguish the fediverse and how would they do that from a technical standpoint?
âExtendâ typically means adding proprietary features to your own product that are incompatible with your competitorâs product. For example, what if they added Gold (as in the old Reddit kind, not the current Reddit kind)? That obviously wouldnât work with Lemmy, or at least not right away. The Lemmy devs would have to try to play catch-up whenever Threads launched a new feature. And not every would be able to be made compatible with Lemmy in some way.
Second, why when the entire fediverse with years of time behind it is a rounding error compared to a product they launched like 6 months ago. Why does Meta give a tiny shit about the fedi compared to TikTok, for example?
There are several potential reasons for this. They could see Lemmy as a potential future threat, and using the EEE method may squash the potential threat before it actually becomes one.
ActivityPub itself is also actually a neat feature to offer. Itâs basically Single Sign-On (aka SSO) without a few steps. (This is not me giving Facebook the benefit of the doubt. Companies can have multiple reasons for doing something, and I cannot believe this is the only reason Facebook would experiment with ActivityPub.)
As for your point about TikTok, TikTok itself is already too big to use the EEE method. (It usually only works on smaller competitors.) Facebook is using a different method for that: it cloned TikTok. Their version is called Reels.
As for the ârounding errorâ comment, Facebook actually had âaccountsâ created on Threads for all of its Instagram users, so, while there may be billions of accounts, not all of them are active. As a matter of fact, Iâve heard Threads use dropped pretty significantly after its initial launch. In that case, Facebook could be using a strategy Iâve seen both Sony and Microsoft use in regards to their game consoles: whenever Sony is in âsecond placeâ in the its console war with Microsoft, it tries to get people to migrate over by adding features its userbase wants. Whenever Sony is on top, however, they tend to stop listening to customer feedback and sit on their laurels. Iâve seen Microsoft employ a similar strategy, too.
shrugalItâs pretty logical actually: The advocates of openness must be closed to one thing, and that is whatever aims to destroy openness itself.
Social Contract.
A_Random_IdiotExactly.
Someone failed ethics class really hard.
So many people here are acting like lions, jaguars, attack zebras etc donât exist. There is no way on this earth that meta is coming into the fediverse with good intentions. Just because we advocate for FOSS doesnât mean we have to be foolish and vulnerable. Being closed to meta is consistent with being supportive of FOSS, because make no mistake, meta is here to kill the fediverse.
Yeah, canât expect people in power not to use it to further their agenda.
Cyber YukiYou just sounded like:
You donât allow nazi clubs in your area? Ah hah! Gotcha! So much for the âtolerant leftâ!
đ
Seriously, why are there so many people ignorant of the damage Facebook has done not only to social media, but to democracy as a whole? Youâre aware of Facebooks role in Trumpâs election in 2016, arenât you? Havenât you heard of Cambridge Analytica? Of the Russian troll farms? Of the millions of fake Republican Facebook accounts?
(Sometimes I wonder: Is Lemmy getting filled with shills, or are people THAT clueless? Has the pandemic suddenly affected our long term memory or something?)
How can you not know about this? Seriously!
Yes, Iâm aware. Fediverse also has nazis, theyâre everywhere. I can put on my big boy pants and block them as I see them, instead of an admin doing collateral damage and preventing from talking to all the other people who wonât leave Threads.
. I can put on my big boy pants and block them as I see them, instead of an admin doing collateral damage and preventing
Okay first, you have no fucking idea how online harassment works. Iâve seen numerous cases of people being attacked, even doxxed, hy hordes of assholes. Imagine a single mother who can barely have time to work and attend their children, to deal with this shit. And you know? It happens ALL THE TIME to BIPOC users on the fedi.
âHey, the nazis are invading Poland, why arenât you on the frontlines carrying your gun?â As if there wasn no such thing as innocent CIVILIANS. In a world where speaking up is punished by dogpiling, harassing and doxxing, people just prefer to flee because their admins donât do shit to defend them. Ask ANY Black person on Mastodon what itâs like to be harassed online.
Second, forcing people deal with the problems of harassment puts the burden of blocking on the end user. (From another POV, itâs the e-mail spam problem if you think about it. Dogpiling is a social form of DDOSing someone, and thereâs no way to prevent it except by mass blocking the source of the attacks.
Letting an instance admin defederate from a problematic instance protects ALL the adminâs users with minimal effort on their part. If a threads user is defederated they can as well switch to another instance, nobody stops them.
Are they not happy with how their instance is treated? Demand changes to the instance, after all they paid for it, didnât they? Oh they didnât? Then whoâs finacing and controlling it then?
Consider defederation the invisible hand of the market turned visible.
Defederation is NOT damage. On the other hand, people suffering emotional distress from harassment IS damage.