Alan McKenna
Radical Graffiti"Ethnic cleansing is not self-defence"
Pasteups in Paris
Pasteups in Paris
đŚŤđ§đ¸ đťđš@RadicalGraffiti on any side.
notwithstanding
biplane@notwithstanding @RadicalGraffiti Now compare the chart of Palestinian population outside the West Bank and Gaza before and since the Nakba to the second chart, maybe?
@biplane @RadicalGraffiti that partitioning was mandated by the UN resolution 181 - the two state solution, to which Arab states responded with invasion and war.
@notwithstanding @RadicalGraffiti I'm familiar with it. However, I'm not certain where the fact that the United Nations endorsed ethnic cleansing changes the fact that forced population transfers are ethnic cleansing?
Would the expulsion of Jews from the Arab states have been fine if it was endorsed by the United Nations? Would it be reasonable to reply with the climbing population of Israel to insist that it's not?
@biplane @RadicalGraffiti the fact that the UN implemented it should tell you that it was not ethnic cleansing. It was allowing an indigenous population to return to where it came from right after it was victim of an actual genocide.
@notwithstanding In what world is forcing the people of a certain ethnicity inhabiting a region their people have lived in for over a thousand years to leave not ethnic cleansing?
What definition of ethnic cleansing does not apply to the Nakba but does to the expulsion of Jews from the Arab states, exactly?
@biplane in the world where the people going to live at that region were born there in prehistoric times. In the Iron Age.
At the risk of oversimplifying it let me put it like this: the cavemen in prehistoric times at the region are the Jews.
They were kicked out time and again, and persecuted etc etc over millennia. Now they have the means to defend themselves against Hamasâ vow to exterminate/expel them yet again.
@notwithstanding I'll have to think about this one. I certainly do believe that Jews have a right to live in the region - as opposed to those who would see them expelled especially or define them as a colonial group, but I don't know if that right necessarily should come at the cost of people who've been there for a thousand years being pushed out. Like, I don't know if I'd back Ireland taking back Northern Ireland and expelling the Protestants there, or whatever.
@biplane thank you. Thatâs all I am asking, think a bit about it.âŠIt is of course not easy to solve. For example: the Northern Ireland analogy doesnât really hold for the land problem, because the Irish living there are already living there together with the Protestants.â¨The Levant is much harder, because you had millions of Jews to *move into* the region.â¨And then you have the religious questions, Arabs taking part in actual Nazi battalions in WWII, and what not.
@biplane maybe I will try another oversimplification:
If the Maori had weapons to take New Zealand back, you couldnât acuse them o âethnic cleansingâ white people.
See?
@biplane @RadicalGraffiti you can also note that the climb in population depicted in the graph starts in 1968, thus not linked to what you call Nakba, as opposed what you are tried to imply.
ghostdancer@notwithstanding https://bpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/sites.psu.edu/dist/0/66886/files/2017/02/israel-palestine_map_19225_2469-vrwani.jpg
More children killed in Gaza in one month than in any other conflict annually since 2019
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/middleeast/palestinian-israeli-deaths-gaza-dg/index.html @RadicalGraffiti
More children killed in Gaza in one month than in any other conflict annually since 2019
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/11/07/middleeast/palestinian-israeli-deaths-gaza-dg/index.html @RadicalGraffiti
@ghostdancer @RadicalGraffiti that is not being disputed. These deaths are Hamas responsibility.
@notwithstanding You I recall a terrorist group in my country when they put bombs they phone to inform about that and the when there where victims they blamed on the victim,exactly like you do. Goebbels would be so proud of you. It's a pity that you are feeding all the antisemitism in the world with all your lies and hate. BTW I hope that your government pays you well for this publicity job. It's funny to see they send publicity drones to the fediverse too. @RadicalGraffiti
@ghostdancer @RadicalGraffiti FYI I am neither Israeli nor Jewish (religious or ethnic).
From their side Hamas didnât phone anyone, and slaughtered and raped civilians, specifically targeted because they were civilians. That is terrorism.
They use their own population as shields, then blame others for what is their responsibility.
Also FYI âJews are feeding antisemitismâ is precisely what Goebbels used to say. You are literally blaming the victims. Literally.
@notwithstanding
Hamas is a terrorist group that should disappear and their members detained and prosecuted. The war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza too. And if you think that a phone call telling that they're going to destroy your home is OK then you have a problem. Hamas is responsible for their crimes, Israel too. Anyone justifying what is happening in Gaza right now is not a good person.
@RadicalGraffiti
Hamas is a terrorist group that should disappear and their members detained and prosecuted. The war crimes committed by Israel in Gaza too. And if you think that a phone call telling that they're going to destroy your home is OK then you have a problem. Hamas is responsible for their crimes, Israel too. Anyone justifying what is happening in Gaza right now is not a good person.
@RadicalGraffiti
Martin Kostera@ghostdancer
"More children killed in Gaza in one month than in any other conflict annually since 2019"
This is number from terrorist who always lie. Ask yourself why you believe to terrorists. Who is bad guy then?
BTW, your map is fake. Reality looks different.
"phone call telling that they're going to destroy your home"
You are right. It's not good. Next time just bomb terrorists. No call. đ
#^Thread by @Aizenberg55 on Thread Reader App
@Aizenberg55: đ§ľCritical Thread. Close review of Gaza casualty figures reported by UN OCHA based on daily Hamas âMinistry of Healthâ numbers proves they are FALSIFIED. Women & children are grossly inflated. This is e...âŚ
"More children killed in Gaza in one month than in any other conflict annually since 2019"
This is number from terrorist who always lie. Ask yourself why you believe to terrorists. Who is bad guy then?
BTW, your map is fake. Reality looks different.
"phone call telling that they're going to destroy your home"
You are right. It's not good. Next time just bomb terrorists. No call. đ
#^Thread by @Aizenberg55 on Thread Reader App
@Aizenberg55: đ§ľCritical Thread. Close review of Gaza casualty figures reported by UN OCHA based on daily Hamas âMinistry of Healthâ numbers proves they are FALSIFIED. Women & children are grossly inflated. This is e...âŚ
@martin
Trust IDF, they have not lied and have not been caught lying when they kill "human animals" and when they bomb UN schools and hospitals. Hama's are terrorists but right now IDF is not much better than they.
Trust IDF, they have not lied and have not been caught lying when they kill "human animals" and when they bomb UN schools and hospitals. Hama's are terrorists but right now IDF is not much better than they.
@martin
If they phone you it's because they know you're not a terrorist otherwise would be stupid.
If they phone you it's because they know you're not a terrorist otherwise would be stupid.
@ghostdancer @RadicalGraffiti of course destroying homes and people dying is never âokâ. What we disagree on is whose responsibility this is.
I blame Hamas. And, you canât expect Hamas to disappear, somebody has to finish it. They are a 30.000 armed military group that was actually elected by the people under which houses they hide. They wonât just surrender and sit calmly in court waiting for the prosecution.
This is why there is a war.
@notwithstanding
Most of the people living in Gaza didn't vote for Hamas, they were too young to vote then. Never forget that Israel aided Hama's to gain power to weaken the non religious main party Fatah and the one who helped them was Netanyahu. BTW you agree with terrorists when they put a bomb and blame all the innocent passing by for mixing with their enemies.
@RadicalGraffiti
Most of the people living in Gaza didn't vote for Hamas, they were too young to vote then. Never forget that Israel aided Hama's to gain power to weaken the non religious main party Fatah and the one who helped them was Netanyahu. BTW you agree with terrorists when they put a bomb and blame all the innocent passing by for mixing with their enemies.
@RadicalGraffiti
@notwithstanding
You tell that Hama's can't disappear, then what reasoning behind these bombings , the only they get is more people for them unless the reason is assassinate most of them and exile the rest.
@RadicalGraffiti
You tell that Hama's can't disappear, then what reasoning behind these bombings , the only they get is more people for them unless the reason is assassinate most of them and exile the rest.
@RadicalGraffiti
@ghostdancer @RadicalGraffiti oh my. Thatâs not what I meant. Here it goes again:âŠHamas will not simply disappear *by itself*.
âŠâHamas should disappearââ¨â you
âŠSo how do you propose Hamas disappears? Hereâs some news: someone has to MAKE Hamas disappear. That is what Israel is doing.
âŠâHamas should disappearââ¨â you
âŠSo how do you propose Hamas disappears? Hereâs some news: someone has to MAKE Hamas disappear. That is what Israel is doing.
@notwithstanding And it has never worked, ISIS is still there, Taliban are still there, ....
It won't work, that type of terrorist organizations with mixed nationality and religious ideology can't be eliminated unless they are too small, and that is not the case. It can only be weaken them till they loose power over the people they control.
And you still keep trying to justify the assassination of innocent children, blaming on others is a pathetic way to not accept the responsibility.
It won't work, that type of terrorist organizations with mixed nationality and religious ideology can't be eliminated unless they are too small, and that is not the case. It can only be weaken them till they loose power over the people they control.
And you still keep trying to justify the assassination of innocent children, blaming on others is a pathetic way to not accept the responsibility.
@ghostdancer your plan seems to be âdo nothing and wait them to weakenâ.
Alright then, you keep waiting and wishing for them to disappear while they kill and rape.
I will give you a suggestion: since you think Israel is as bad as Hamas, do the same - leave them alone and wait
@notwithstanding Do nothing no but this won't work It's not a movie.
@ghostdancer
So:
- do not do nothing
- do not do what they are doing
- do not simply wait
- Palestinians wonât get rid of Hamas because itâs too hard
What is your plan? In the real world?
@notwithstanding
Killing and assassinating is not mine it's yours. Israel had the opportunity to end or minimise Hamas years ago and chose to nurture them for political reasons, some people chose violence and now Israelis and Palestinians are paying the price.
Killing and assassinating is not mine it's yours. Israel had the opportunity to end or minimise Hamas years ago and chose to nurture them for political reasons, some people chose violence and now Israelis and Palestinians are paying the price.
@ghostdancer
so in your view:
- Hamas existing is Israels fault
- But Palestinians didnât choose neither support Hamas
- Hamas chooses violence, some people just do it
- What is happening to Israelis and Palestinians is Israelâs fault
What a fair, balanced point of view! Luckily Israel can defend itself from people like you. And will.
@notwithstanding When I said the mask was off, I meant that it was clear that you was just a Israeli propaganda drone, I hope they pay. You're 2 toots away from accusing me of antisemitism. Or you don't understand or you're plainly manipulating my words as a good propaganda drone. Hamas doings are Hamas faults and I said that several times and they should pay for them. Israel made some mistakes that doesn't justify any or the crimes of Hamas.
But keep twisting my words.
But keep twisting my words.
@ghostdancer âaccusingâ you of antisemitism? I thought that was self evident!
Hereâs your words:
âGoebbels would be so proud of you. It's a pity that you are feeding all the antisemitism in the world with all your lies and hate.â
The first phrase is called Nazi Reversal, and the second is Antisemitic Victim-Blaming.
You arenât very self aware
@[email protected] âŹď¸
@notwithstanding You admit you support crime wars and no respect for human rights of Gazaties. If you change Gazaties with Israelis is what Hamas would say, you see you have lot in common with them just hidden under different justifications and flag. And they think just as you theirs are the correct and right ones. But don't worry people like you are all over the world, hiding themselves under straw justifications and flags.
@ghostdancer I said I support military action. Not war crimes. So much for twisting.
Maybe you donât know hiding under civilians is a war crime, also.
@notwithstanding That's the word "also", so you admit that Israel is committing war crimes. Be careful your friends may not like that. And now please tell what lies I have said, or maybe you're the one lying.
@ghostdancer âalsoâ refers to everything *you donât know*, einstein
Hereâs some war crimes for you:
Gruesome eyewitness accounts of barbaric Hamas sex crimes on October 7, including:âŠâď¸violent rape, â¨âď¸gang rape, â¨âď¸sexual mutilation, â¨âď¸pedophilia,â¨âď¸necrophilia
âŠhttps://t.co/aWLedo1IzH
@ghostdancer read the post above for your lie, about me supporting war crimes⌠you arenât coming out as very bright like this
@ghostdancer @RadicalGraffiti
âMost of the people living in Gaza didn't vote for Hamas, they were too young to vote thenâ
â you
Sorry, I am not here teach you the concept of self-determination. Please google it.
I will just tell you that if your parents elect someone *you* will live with the consequences of what they do.
And hereâs a poll on Palestinian support for Hamasâ Oct 7th terrorist attack:
@notwithstanding ROTFL , It's so cute that you live in an ideological bubble. If that would be true why do people live under dictatorships? Iran, China. Saudi Arabia, ...
It's not that easy, and then there's the manipulation, are you that naive to think all Russians agree with the attack on Ukraine? Or Saudies about the bombings in Yemen? Consent can be manipulated.
Get out of your fantasy world, the reality does not work that way unless you're 16 and live in some parts of the 1st World.
It's not that easy, and then there's the manipulation, are you that naive to think all Russians agree with the attack on Ukraine? Or Saudies about the bombings in Yemen? Consent can be manipulated.
Get out of your fantasy world, the reality does not work that way unless you're 16 and live in some parts of the 1st World.
@ghostdancer I donât care the slightest if the Russians agree or not with the invasion of Ukraine. They are the enemy, they are slaughtering raping an torturing Ukranians - so, fight and bomb them.
Which is exactly what Hamas would do if they had the means. If they use their own people as shields, it is not on Israelis to protect them. It is still Hamas responsibility.
It is you which livein fantasy, wishing for Hamas to disappear by magic. Guess what the magic is called #IDF
@notwithstanding Now the mask has fallen. You show your real face.
Hope you have a nice day (really more than one) , but be careful you may not like what you see when you watch yourself on a mirror.
Hope you have a nice day (really more than one) , but be careful you may not like what you see when you watch yourself on a mirror.
@ghostdancer there was never a mask - I fully support military action against Hamas.
I support a democratic state fighting with all possible power against a military group trying to establish a dictatorship, specially a theocratic dictatorship.
I think all democratic states in the world have a duty to support this fight.
I support a tolerant democracy (see: bedouins / 2LGBTQ+) fighting with all its mighty against a bigot-state that will beat women to death over a headscarf