Mastodawn

Hareksu Nov 30, 2023

Tom Lehrer: "Political satire became obsolete when Henry Kissinger was awarded the Nobel peace prize."

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin and Obama got it. I am a huge fan and we were lucky to have him as Pres. but was a joke he got one. everybody knew the *real* motivation behind it, I suspect

plus Kissinger was only, merely, nominated. Obama *actually* awarded it, and in like his 1st year as Pres. Kissinger at least *did* work over decades internationally on war/peace issues at biggest scale of impact, due to Vietnam and China alone. Obama was talented and a good man but had NO accomplishments worthy of the prize

Keith Ivey Nov 30, 2023

@synlogic @SteveBellovin It wouldn't have been a big deal if Kissinger were only nominated, since a huge number of people are nominated. But he actually got it.
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1973/summary/

Nobel Peace Prize 1973

The Nobel Peace Prize 1973 was awarded jointly to Henry A. Kissinger and Le Duc Tho "for jointly having negotiated a cease fire in Vietnam in 1973"

NobelPrize.org

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@kcivey @SteveBellovin wow. didnt know that. so it was almost as much BS as the Obama one. still not all the way cuz there was some argument for Kissingers *at* that time. it seems much more unjust only with the benefits of decades of historical study since. I guess the one for Kissinger was intended to be a kind of act of encouragement as much as one for Obama was

jeancf Nov 30, 2023

@synlogic @SteveBellovin
> Kissinger only nominated
Kissinger won it in 1973
https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/peace/1973/kissinger/facts/
In 1975, a day after the fall of Saigon, Kissinger attempted to return his prize, saying the "peace we sought through negotiations has been overturned by force,"
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/henry-kissinger-the-revered-and-controversial-statesman-who-once-tried-to-return-his-nobel-peace-prize-dead-at-100/ar-AA1kKVyK

Henry Kissinger – Facts - NobelPrize.org

NobelPrize.org

Dan Riley Nov 30, 2023

@synlogic @SteveBellovin Kissinger actually received the peace prize along with Le Duc Tho, not just nominated. Tho refused it, Kissinger accepted but did not attend the award ceremony, and later offered to return his prize medal.

Obama getting the "not GWB" award was pretty ridiculous, and it probably hurt more than helped.

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@dan131riley @SteveBellovin agreed on Obama

and Obama admin's biggest win was prob the ACA, a huge step forward for American's healthcare

his biggest negative legacy, and one we cant blame him for directly, is that he was prob too naive on Putin's character and Russia's reformability. and his holding of the Oval Office, as a black man -- and a strong smart well-spoken American leader and role model -- might have been a trigger which infuriated Putin, Trump and many racist American whites

Steve Bellovin Nov 30, 2023

@synlogic @dan131riley “Might”?

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin @dan131riley haha. well I'm pretty sure it did. but cant confirm it

with my own eyes I saw some "the US President is a gorilla with evil intent" type messages out in public. whoever made it was careful with their exact visuals so they did not say that literally. but it was clearly the belief and idea conveyed by the thing I saw

and yes it was in "red state" kind of area. the kind with gun hoarders etc

thats one anecdote but lots of other evidence Obama triggered racists

Dan Riley Nov 30, 2023

@synlogic @SteveBellovin There were a lot more attacking Michelle, who by all reasonable accounts is a marvelous person

Steve Bellovin Nov 30, 2023

@dan131riley @synlogic I saw a fair number of news stories about racist attacks on both of them, and I'm sure there were many more that I didn’t see or that never made the news media. I'm quite certain that a lot of the opposition to him—not all, but a lot—was pure racism.

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin @dan131riley agreed

Dan Riley Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin @synlogic I honestly believe that in any non-us-fascist future timeline, the Obama presidency will be remembered as a huge missed opportunity

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@dan131riley @SteveBellovin good take

btw I'm making software which is literally about various possible futures of the US. its a game, but an edu-game. meant both to educate on dangers to democracy, and the carbon climate crisis. and hopefully help influence voters a tad more by the 2024 election. however tiny I felt I need to try contributing there. anyway, your comment about non-us-fascist future made me think you'd be interested haha

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@dan131riley @SteveBellovin agreed. all the attacks on Barack and Michelle were an example of "gaslighting". up is down. left is right. sky is cheese.Trump became known for it. but it was also a hallmark indicia of Putin Russia's propaganda both within Russia and also as part of his gov's covert "sow chaos" propaganda ops done against US/West. I worked to fight against it professionally in the past

Sören Nov 30, 2023

@dan131riley @synlogic @SteveBellovin I mean, the whole “Birther” conspiracy thing started out from “I need to find a reason a black person can’t be POTUS”. And Trump was one of the big proponents of it.

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@chucker @dan131riley @SteveBellovin bingo

Dan Riley Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin @synlogic what was most revealing to me was how many arguments rested on the assumption that Obama, as a black man, couldn't possibly be qualified to be president. It did also expose how far we are from being able to end racial discrimination just by ignoring race (Chief Justice Roberts formulation).

Sören Nov 30, 2023

@synlogic @SteveBellovin hmm. Cuba, maybe? First president in decades who eased sanctions. Others barely even tried.

synlogic Nov 30, 2023

@chucker @SteveBellovin Trump reversed Obama's Cuba thaw. he/GOP have not reversed ACA. weakened it some yes but still mostly in full orig effect

Trump's Cuba thing was anti-US sabotage, for his mafia top boss Putin, pure and simple. the latter wanted Cuba to be nudged back into orbit of Russia etc. as ir was during the USSR Cold War years

90% of what Trump did was Russian sabotage. when it wasnt done for greedy private self-dealing. or idiot bumbling. or cruelty

I am Jack's Lost 404 Nov 30, 2023

Dirk Ritter Nov 30, 2023

Great! Thank you! With a comment on the issue nailed to the top of my social media presence ever since I got there I was always wondering just WHEN exactly political cabaret became so vastly less bonkers than actual politics. Now I know. It happened just 3 years after I was born. Easy enough to remember. 👍 🍿

bert hubert 🇺🇦🇪🇺🇺🇦Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin and Lehrer has outlasted Kissinger (barely it appears)!

VoquiLeibbrandt pas un pseudo Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin Never forget dynamite is used only to open roads and tunnels - linking people peacefully

Candelaria y compañía Nov 30, 2023

@SteveBellovin 🧡 Imagine if the science nobel prizes were as badly chosen as the peace ones