nayminlwinAny experience with teaching kids Linux?
I had good luck walking my nephew through installing and setting up arch. Great introduction into linux, he was 13 but thats close enough to the given range
How do you mean teach?
Just getting them to use it or teaching them terminal commands?
My son’s windows focused ICT curriculum is pissing me off a bit. So I guess what I wanna teach is something similar to what a kid’s ICT text book would teach, except that it will be for Linux.
Huh, may be I should look for kid friendly linux books first.
I don’t know what your - and your kid’s - situation is, but I worry pushing Linux onto someone would be counterproductive to getting them to like it.
I only use it because I genuinely like and appreciate it. I’d probably start by getting him interested in it. If he likes it enough then he’ll try and learn more by himself.
I recently got an LLM running locally on an AMD GPU. This was only possible on Linux. Depending on your son, something like that could be a cool way to get him interested.
Can you tell me something about what card you used to run what llm? What is its performance?
There is so little out there about this.
I have an RX6800XT and I use KoboldCPP to run models I download off of Huggingface.
I’m not sure how many tokens per second it generates, probably about 10?
If you want to try it yourself here’s a link to the Github page: github.com/LostRuins/koboldcpp
Yeah, I also don’t wanna push it too hard.
Gonna be hard though. He’s way too into roblox these days.
embed_meI have no experience
But you might be interested in this:
We did some MIT’s scratch together. I’ll give it a try as well.
ExtremeDullardYeah, don’t: they know more than you.
Kids that age certainly know how to use a lot of apps, but only in the walled gardens these apps allow them. It’s going to be generations of kids only exposed to very curated experiences that companies what them to know.
It was just a joke.
Although it’s true: they probably do know a lot more about stuff that matters to their generation than you do, just like you knew more than your parents about stuff that mattered to you as a kid.
And yes, I agree, they do get exposed to the Big Tech party line a lot. But don’t underestimate the kids: they’re smart, they can tell BS when they see it more than you think, and they’re not that easy to indoctrinate.
I know that because when I was a kid, we had our own tech overlords (in my generation, the phone company) and we walked all over them despite the propaganda and apparent overwhelming power. Why would today’s kids be any different?
I think “matters more to their generation” is doing some heavy lifting. They surely know how to navigate social media and chat servers and all that. And in a way that’s more important.
I don’t think that maps to being able to use Linux is any proficiency.
Kids are smart in some ways and stupid in a lot of ways that adults are. They’re largely being put in a battle they can’t win against YouTube and TikTok that systematically target their psychology.
Well, I don’t know. I kept telling how games like roblox are brainwashing and conditioning him into wanting to buy in-game junks. And, he still asks robuxs for this birthday.
To get me educated a bit, too…
Wanting robux and things like that are probably unavoidable due to peer pressure and exposure to videos and game-mechanics telling them they want this. It’s probably been like this forever, you always needed the same merchandise your friends had.
I’m curious: Do you know what he (at his age) thinks about your perspective on things?
Does he have other hobbies and still wants some immaterial in-game items / currency? Does a kid at that age grasp the value / alternatives? I suppose this all depends on how much time someone spends in a virtual world. Sure you need/want some goods there if this is a major part of your life.
I know a lot of people my age (early 20s) who use tiktok and have no idea what tracking or privacy mean.
Kids might be smart, but if this is all they’ve known and it works well enough they don’t pay attention and don’t use their critical thinking.
Is that so different than in previous generations? Even back in the C64 era most kids just played games from disks they bought.
If you got into computers any time from the mid-90s, you would have been using Windows and that’s it.
Smartphones always came with their predetermined OS without a command line or programming tools on them. (There where apps for that on many systems, but in general, that wasn’t a thing most users used.)
From the 80s on, programming wasn’t required to use a PC and most users never learned it.
In general, people would just use pre-made software, because they use a PC/smartphone as a tool to do what they want to.
It’s kinda like with any other tools. People buy a hammer because they need to get a nail into a wall. Only very few people are interested in a hammer itself and get into the art of making their own tools.
I think it is different. In the 90s everything was limited. You needed to make do with what was limited things were available to you and get innovative and creative. Nowadays everything is unlimited. You have plenty of games on your harddisk and get new ones on a whim. You don’t need to figure out how to tackle your own problems because everything just works. We have the internet and YouTube entertainment never ends. (Back then it was just the TV.) And things weren’t made to be addictive.
I wasn’t allowed to get a GameBoy so I just had a computer. We got really creative with that because it was old and slow. When I was a bit older I figured out how to use a hex editor to manipulate the games. First I searched for where the highscore was saved and changed it to brag. Then we figured out how to change the thrust of the aircraft in the flight simulator. At some point I wanted to make my own game. I started with level-editors for the games we had access to and at some point I wanted to learn programming. And since I didn’t get a new computer when my friends got a 500MHz machine that could do CounterStrike(?) and more modern racing games, I asked my dad for his old books about programming.
So there is a natural progression for old computers to hacking and using your computer as a tool. We also incorporated it into other games, wrote letters and printed shipping labels. But I can’t deny that lots of my friends weren’t interested in that aspect and mainly used it for games and never went deeper than that. But… At least they had to figure out how to assemble their PC and get networking working because it really was a hassle. I think it’s become way easier to just ‘consume’ nowadays. That was also possible in the 90s if you had a Nintendo or PlayStation and unrestricted access to a television. But I think less so with a computer.
Kids still like to be creative. I still regularly see them play Minecraft or design levels with Mario Maker.
GranixoSuperTux, Tux Math, Tux Paint and SuperTuxKart.
Easiest way to get kids involved with Linux.
I did get him into TuxPaint and GCompris. He liked playing around in GCompris.
The problem is I have to compete with youtube and roblox… So I have to lock these out for him to use anything else.
Max-PThe only advice I have is to try to make it interesting for them and not just additional practical information they have to memorize. You don’t want to be the weird dad that insists on using stuff nobody else does, you have to show them what’s cool about it, and also accept maybe they’ll just stick with Windows for now.
I also think the main takeaway they should have out of it is that there’s many ways of doing the same thing and none is “the correct and only way”. They should learn to think critically, navigate unfamiliar user interfaces, learn some more general concepts and connect the dots on how things work, and that computers are logical machines, they don’t just do random things because they’re weird. Teach them the value of being able to dig into how it works even if it doesn’t necessarily benefit them immediately.
Maybe set up a computer or VM with all sorts of WMs and DEs with the express permission to wreck it if they want, or a VM they can set up (even better if they learn they can make their own VMs as well!). Probably have some games on there as well. Maybe tour some old operating systems for the historical context of how we got where we are today. Show them how you can make the computers do things via a terminal and it does the same thing as in the GUI. Show different GUIs, different file managers, different text/document editors, maybe different DE’s, maybe even tiling vs floating. What is a file, how are ways you can organize them, how you can move them around, how some programs can open other program’s files.
Teach them the computer works for them not the other way around. They can make the computer do literally anything they want if they wish so. But it’s okay to use other people’s stuff too.
For me what planted the Linux seed is when I tried Mandrake Linux when I was 9-10ish. I didn’t end up sticking with it for all that long, but I absolutely loved trying out all those DEs. I had downloaded the full fat 5 CD version and checked almost everything during setup, so it came jam packed with all sorts of random software to try out. The games were nice, played the shit out of Frozen Bubble. I really liked Konqueror too, coming from Internet Explorer. It was pretty snappy overall. And there’s virtual desktops for more space! People were really helpful on IRC, even though I was asking about installing my Windows drivers in Wine. Unfortunately I kinda wanted games and my friends were getting annoyed we couldn’t play games on my computer.
It stuck with me however, so later on when some of my online friends were trying it out, I wanted to try it out again too. I wasn’t much into games anymore, had started coding a little bit. So on my computer went Kubuntu 7.10, and I’m still on Linux to this day.
But that seed is what taught me there’s more. I didn’t hate Windows, I wasn’t looking to replace it. I hadn’t fallen in love with FOSS yet. It was cool and different and fun. It wasn’t as sterile and as… grey as Windows 98. You could pop up some googly eyes that followed your mouse, because you could. There were all those weird DEs with all sorts of bars and features.
Maybe a Steam Deck if they’re into gaming, boy do people love to tinker with their Decks.
But the deck can also be used for gaming with zero tinkering, so kids will do that.
0x4E4FYes, he’ll just drop into Steam when something gets too hard to acomplish. I wouldn’t use the deck as a learning tool as well.
miss_brainfartBut when the time comes and the kid needs to write some assignments for school, you can be like Your Steam Deck can do that too, have a look at what this dock does
Imagine if handheld gaming is all they’ve ever used it and known it for, and all of a sudden you show them than it can be a full desktop experience, too
My mind would’ve been blown back when I was a kid
Your Steam Deck can do that too, have a look at what this dock does
Ah, of course 👍. Maybe like let him do the first few on his laptop and then be like “you know you can do that on the steam deck, right 😏” 😁.
I love Linux gaming. Got the Steam deck for my SO. She kind of hates it BECAUSE it’s not a no tinker device.
Like if you pick the right games you’re good, but want to play the “wrong” game, or want to mod, and your back to tinkering.
I don’t mind it at all, it’s just what PC gaming has been for me my whole life, but for her, someone who only experienced gaming on newer consoles it’s a pain in the tush.
Thanks! This is really helpful.
You don’t want to be the weird dad that insists on using stuff nobody else does, you have to show them what’s cool about it, and also accept maybe they’ll just stick with Windows for now.
This 👆. Be weird, but be cool at the same time. None of the other dads can do this, but yours can 🦸 ☺️… and, he can teach you how to do a lot more cool stuff as well 😉.
I also think the main takeaway they should have out of it is that there’s many ways of doing the same thing and none is “the correct and only way”. They should learn to think critically, navigate unfamiliar user interfaces, learn some more general concepts and connect the dots on how things work, and that computers are logical machines, they don’t just do random things because they’re weird. Teach them the value of being able to dig into how it works even if it doesn’t necessarily benefit them immediately.
This will come gradually. First, show him one way of doing things, let it sink in, let him get comfortable with it, then say “you know, you could do that in another way as well 😉”. I bet he’ll start asking you if there are other ways as well in no time 😂.
Just introducing them to it is probably enough. Show them different desktop environments and applications to get them used to the idea of diverse interfaces and workflows. Just knowing that alternatives exist could help them break out of the Windows monoculture later. Enable all of the cool window effects.
KDEs wobbly windows will convert almost any child to linux.
StritOr the return of The Cube.
cerementthere’s always the classic Sugar (the interface for the OLPC project)
Have’t heard of this before. Will check it out.
I just started them on Linux machines from the get go. The same reason I got good at 3.1/95/98 was to setup games, filesharing, and getting hardware to work for better games. Even with Steam, there’s always some work to handle oddities. The kids are rapidly becoming reasonable basic admins the same way I did. Whether they decide to go further and learn more will be up to them.
Hmm, I guess I’ll start by guiding him to deal with his PC problems by himself.
That’s a good start. Also, include him in your own PC activities (some of them), like “I need to find a cool new background, I was thinking this and this might be cool, could you help me find something online?”. It gives kids a sense of being useful and wanted, plus a pat on the back, hi 5 or something like that when task is done. And it might inspire him to look for his own background, something he identifies with😉.
Have a lot smaller kid, he’s 4, but this is just something from the top of my head… or how I would play it.
You’re good
Thanks, I try ☺️.
It was hard for me at first, grasping how to bring up and educate him… it didn’t come naturally for me. But my mom was a lot of help, she gave me a lot of pointers and I just started building on that 😉.
All too much of OS config, IT work, and troubleshooting is a combination of reading docs, trying things, and plenty of online searches. The big missing piece is motivation. That’s why I learned as a kid. It was all about building systems to play games.
For your kids, a combination of showing the basics, how to find out how to fix things, giving them agency to modify the OS (assume you’ll need to reinstall sometime), and a purpose could get them going. Not everyone find the motivation and interest, but kids are often more able to invest and explore than we give them credit for. I found my son (at age 13) at installed the proprietary NVidia driver for his laptop without my knowing. He just started following tutorials until it worked. Proud dad moment, time for ice cream, and then he went back to playing games with his buddies.
kroldenHave them install archand/or gentoo
Jo MiranI taught adult education in college and always introduced people to computing with “DOS for Dummies” even though Windows was the OS they interacted with. By teaching them in a command line only environment first I could then easily teach them the desktop environment because they understood what was going on behind the scenes. I think the same could be done with Linux.
Yeah, but the kid has to be older, 12 is too young for that IMO.
Still, a Linux install witu a DE will do nicely. He wants to do this and this, but there is GUI for it, tell him to open up the terminal and type in the following commands, see what happens after it’s typed… it always brings a smile, even with adults ☺️, they feel like they’re hackers or something 😂.
touristWhen I was 12 I got “tricked” into installing Linux Mint from a USB drive because another kid told me it had Garageband on it.
Like that meme where you give someone a bunch of adderall and a pickaxe and tell them there’s gold under a location you need excavated.
Perhaps you could explore adjacent strategies?
May be not a bad idea.
His screen time is currently limited and he’s been asking me to remove the limit. Guess I can let him dual boot into Mint without any screen time limit so that he can play around.
WhiteHotaruGot my little brother (12) to run Minecraft on Linux mint,
I’m teaching my son to be pc agnostic.
Yep, this is good as well. Use whatever suits the needs best, but I’d try and get him leaning towards the FOSS side - use other OSes only if you have to.
A friend of mine got his son to use Linux by just not providing an alternative, he installed Debian edu (don’t know if that’s the name, but basically a Debian spin for kids with parental restrictions and stuff) on an old laptop for him and that’s what he used. Once he got his own PC it was over though since he wanted to play Fortnite so bad that he bought windows for that. He still dual boots Fedora, but I don’t think he has used it since the windows partition is there.
I think the thing is you can’t really get kids (or people in general for that matter) into Linux the way you are probably into it and interested in it. At least not if they’re not already interested in it on their own. They will learn how to use it sure, but not the way we’re used to using Linux, understanding the intricacies of the system, keeping the system safe,… They’ll probably find a way to do what they already do on windows and ignore that the OS is different.
IMO, his aproach was too strict, that’s why it failed and just caused repulsion towards Linux. There are other ways you can “make” children like things.
I don’t think this was too strict, maybe I made it sound that way, but it was not like he forbid him using windows, it was just that he’s using Linux, his son got his old laptop that was running Linux and they didn’t have a windows license, so his son was running Linux as well. He’s also doing fine on Linux and doesn’t dislike it or anything, the only “problem” was that he wanted to play Fortnite which does not work on Linux. He’s also getting along fine with Linux, especially on fedora where he doesn’t need the Terminal.
What I wanted to say with that comment is that you can’t make your kids to learn and use Linux like most of us probably do. For most people an operating system is still just some black magic on their computer that makes the browser or their games run, they don’t care how it works or if it is secure or using the latest software. Most people just don’t know and don’t care what an OS even is and the same thing goes for kids imo
Oh, that’s different then… I thought his dad was like “run Debian, or you’re grounded”, lol 😂.
I agree on the last part, that is most definitely true. You can try, but you can’t force it 🤷. After all, his/hers gifts may lay in another field, not tech 😉.
jorgesumleThey like playing SuperTux
You can only teach someone Linux if they have a desire to learn it. If they don’t want to learn it, then they might learn that it’s “bad” or “weird” compared to mainstream OSes, which would be working backwards.
Teacher here.
My favourite “lesson” I ever gave was in a grade 9 technology class. It was a pretty small class, about 10 kids. I split them up into two teams and made a competition. They chose their own teams — it ended up being boys vs girls. I never would have made it that way on my own but that’s how it worked out.
The school had a bunch of old, decommissioned PCs that were headed to the junk yard. I sorted through all of them to get two exact sets of working parts for the competition.
The goal of the competition was to recover a jpeg from one of the hard drives. Each team had a computer with the ram removed and two hard drives. One was blank and the other had the jpeg on it. They also had a Linux Mint installer on a usb stick.
I don’t remember exactly how I had set it up but it was points based, something about getting to different stages first. Like 5 points to be the team that turns the computer on first. One of the big ones was that they got an extra 10 points if they did the whole thing without a mouse.
I told the other classes about the competition and asked some other teachers if it would be okay for them to watch and cheer on. It ended up being the nerdiest and most exciting class ever. Students were literally cheering each team through a Linux install. One team got stuck and had to pull out the mouse. There was booing. It was so epic.
The girls won, being the first to recover the jpeg and they did it all without a mouse. It was so awesome. The jpeg was the meme about how would a dog wear pants.
It was about 5 years ago, my first year teaching. I really miss those days. I only teach math now, and while I like that, there was something magical about showing kids how fun computers can be.
Wow, just WOW 👏👏👏.
I wish there were more teachers like you in schools. Inspired people, in general… that’s what’s lacking in society nowadays 😔.