CustosliberaIt really makes me cringe every time they talk about logic...
DrewActually, mormons think they are very logical. I’ve seen many instances of people talking about how Brandon Sanderson being Mormon is why he’s so thorough at world building.
Does he write his world building on golden plates?
Perhaps he dictates his stories using a seer stone while staring into a hat?
dum dum dum dum dum
The flaw of the meme isn’t that it’s picking on religion, the flaw of it is that it assumes illogical views negate logical views. Believing that angels hid golden plates in New England doesn’t negate good looks at a P&L in the same way that a Christian working at NASA that believes a dude rose from the dead doesn’t negate good math to get a satellite into space. I’m the same way that me being agnostic doesn’t mean I’m always logical and rational in every situation.
I argue the opposite and I think the difference is that you believe religious belief can be demarcated in a persons mind where I think it influences all decision making.
I.e. Does my boss make decisions on P&L because they are good at business or because they prayed on it?
You and my boss might look at all the same information and arrive at the same conclusion except how can you be sure that the path my boss took reflects your own logic and not prayer?
If the information about your world passes through a filter to determine if it fits your world view or not it’s possible to serendipitously make the logical decision but it doesn’t mean fundamentally you accept the logic of the situation at hand.
If your foundational understanding of what constitutes possibility, I.e. that when Jesus died he was transported to north America for 3 days prior to being resurrected I have trouble believing this doesn’t influence your day to day decisions.
Walt J. RimmerMost people don’t actually know what logic is. I would ask him to define logic to see where he’s coming from. Because most people either don’t have a definition or if they do it’s different than the one the person they’re talking to has. But to do that, you’ll also want a definition you could explain to someone else going into asking the question.
ToRAI’ll take a swing at it. I’m curious how I’ll do if I just wing it.
Logic is a set of rules that can be used to form repeatable results based on given information. It’s often built using one’s own knowledge and experience. Logic does not require producing accurate results. Flawed logic is still logic. Logic also does not guarantee that the results are the desired results, this is sometimes described as “garbage in, garbage out”.
Is that satisfactory?
Boss just wants everyone to take a big deep breath (and pray?) before making a big decision
And taking a step back and taking a moment to see how you feel about the options is pretty sound advice.
Lexi SneptaurWow Reddit really did migrate here
Yes, how dare I punch down on the poor Mormon Church!
The problem is that the joke is old and isn’t interesting. It’s like talking about weather and then claiming you’re Oscar Wilde.
Person: “Hey, aren’t religious people wacky?”
*Crickets*
I’m not apathetic about religious people because unfortunately they continue to occupy positions of authority in our society.
If religious people were actually dismissed in the way you describe I could understand your perspective. They are not mocked liked this thought and are very much taken seriously.
Not on lemmy. You’re preaching to the choir.
But you’re not talking about that, you’re mocking an individual for being religious.
Isn’t the boss a position of authority?
They are not mocking them for being religious. They are mocking their advice about logic, which comes from a religious person.
Because you know, religion & logic don’t go hand in hand.
unfortunately they continue to occupy positions of authority in our society.
No need to pick on religious people in this case. There are plenty of people with various character flaws in positions of power / authority.
If religious people were actually dismissed in the way you describe I could understand your perspective. They are not mocked liked this though and are very much taken seriously.
So you don’t know about:
- Bill Maher
- Bill Hicks
- George Carlin
- South Park
- any comedy movie that involves a religious character
- the Internet
Wet NoodleNotably those examples make absolutely no difference on how religious people in authority positions frequently use their religion to guide how they use their authority (which ain’t fucking cool)
Yup, I’ve heard this one before as well. Got anything new to add to the discussion?
Do you? Your only replies are just you being shocked nobody agrees with you.
You okay, bro? You seem upset.
Someones upset their church is only 95% in charge
You lost me at “their church”.
I can use whatever word for church you want, bud, theyre all the same thing with a different title. Temple, parish, mosque, its all big rooms with a speaking spot up front
Dude was talking about religion in government and your best rebuttal is people make fun of stuff on comedy shows?
Culture doesn’t affect government? That’s new to me.
Please tell me how south park poking fun at you, as they do with everyone, affects your ability to legislate. Last i checked the jokes haven’t stopped anyone from cramming their religion down our throats
Please tell me how south park poking fun at you,
Not me.
The royal you, are you just trying to be obtuse at this point? (Rhetorical question)
Ah yes, makes 100 bln dollar profit illegally and tax free, pay 5m fee as punishment. What a fucking joke.
I never accused you of punching down lol
And not just any reddit, but 2010 reddit – in both the best and the worst ways.
South Park pretty much summed it up. A nonsensical religion is a rational cost for being in a family is nice to each other.
Except it’s not actually going to get you the results they claim to deliver…
Being in a family that is nice to each other is not exclusive or in any way more likely for Mormons, or really any religion.
If anything it could be easily argued that it would likely trend away from religious households, but without solid data I think it’s better to assume it’s most likely to just be the same likelihood regardless of religious or spiritual beliefs.
However, in the case of Mormons, they actively train their followers to effectively disavow even their own family if they choose to move away from the religion.
I think you’re thinking of the Amish.
Huh? No I am not. I am quite familiar with what I am talking about.
Flying SquidMany religious groups practice shunning. It’s quite common.
Y’all take yourselves too seriously
ivanafterallAs someone who has worked with and for Mormons, it's a special kind of hell. Usually some flavor of narcissist stunted at a middle-school level of inward development.
The gaslighting-with-the-biggest-smile-and-softest-words is too fucking real. It actually boggles me when I see how others fall for it
Spot on. I'm currently trying to get out of Utah, so it's all too painfully real.
That is bigoted thing to say
Nothing will make you more anti-Mormon than getting to know some Mormons.
It’s accurate thing to say.
I’ve known some really nice Mormons, but if you dig below the surface, they have a lot of crazy ideas. A lot.
I mean it’s damn close but if you continue to zoom out you’ll see another point even further away. That my dear is the GOP.
Dismissing good advice because the person who gave it to you has flaws is the epitome of logical behavior!
Let’s assume I didn’t know about vaccines and I went to ask for advice to someone. How would I know if what they told me was good advice?
I would ask myself, are they an authority on the subject? Where do they draw the advice from? Who says they are an authority? What did they have to do to earn that authority? Do other authorities say the same?
Are mormons authorities on logic? Why trust advice about logic from someone that doesn’t follow logic?
A liar can say that lying is bad. A killer can say that killing is bad. It just so happens that the advice is good, in spite of who said it.
You ended up agreeing with me in that last sentence.
Disregarding advice you know is good already because you don’t respect the source is an emotional, not logical, choice.
Yes, it’s emotional to disregard advice you know is good. However it is a logical reaction to have.
It is logical for humans not to trust or accept advice from a hypocrite, even if that advice may be good. It’s not about the advice itself, but about who gives it. That was my point.
Unfortunately humans have emotions, and those emotions factor into our so called “logical decisions”. To ignore our emotions is to pretend we are machines, and machines wouldn’t be in these situations, as a machine wouldn’t give advice it doesn’t follow itself.
Now, if we were machines, sure, if the advice is good, it’s good, doesn’t matter who gives it.
Furthermore, if I already know the advice is good, did I receive advice?
Well, OK, sure. Irrationality is logical in that it’s human.
What do you call an 8 year old girl in Utah who can out run her Bishop?
ManucodeI don’t know. Would you tell me?
baltakateiI hope she’s a good distance runner since there’s no mass transit in much of Utah. It also explains why Japanese internment camps were located there and modern juvenile detention centers can often be found in places like Blanding, Utah: it’s difficult to physically and anonymously escape.
I think it’s pretty logical to outwardly seem like a Mormon in Utah, so I guess it depends.
Hot take: Mormon doctrine is no stranger or harder to believe than any other flavor of Christianity. They’re just a minority so they stand out more.
Mormon church practices however are straight up low level cult behavior.
It’s harder to believe because it’s easily disproven. Turns out Joseph’s “translation” of ancient Egyptian wasn’t inspired.