Mastodawn

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

I'm breaking the thread because I'm shifting gears a little and I don't want to get ideas muddled.

This is another thread about the Walmart house brand onn 4k Google TV set top box.

If you go digging, you'll find me talking about using this hardware for a general purpose computer. I still think thats worthwhile and possible and it's something I will likely pursue in the future, assuming sundog doesn't beat me to it today, but even if we can make this hardware a general purpose computer, there are compelling reasons to leave it as a set top box, and just to make it a better one.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

So it's like this: AndroidTV (and the new "GoogleTV" which is just android TV for android 12) is a privacy nightmare, much like a roku device but actually even worse.

But, unlike a Roku device, Android can usually be cut open and modified.

These Walmart Onn 4k Google TV set top boxes are especially easy to work on as far as AndroidTV/GoogleTV goes.

Press a couple of buttons, issue a few ADB commands, bob's your uncle.

You can rip all the google-y bits out, you can remove all the things that violate your privacy, you can customize the launcher, install your own applications, configure the device to play your media.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

This is pretty common on a lot of these set top boxes, even without rooting them you can get them to run apps that will connect to your local UPNP/DLNA devices and let you play whatever local media you have to your heart's content, but is this enough?

I would argue that it is not! For several key reasons.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

What most folks do today when they get one of these set top boxes up and rooted and running on their televisions is configure them to point to a local media library full of pirated material, maybe set up youtube or vimeo, and the one or two services they pay for and ...

Sometimes there's games, I guess. Nvidia shield is a common gaming platform? Or at least it was at some point in the past. These devices are more than capable of running emulators for old consoles.

Sometimes folks will install Kodi, so they're running a set top box platform on top of their set top box platform. This makes some stuff easier! While also making some stuff significantly more confusing.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

The upshot of all of this noodling, though, is still just a box to consume media that has been pirated, or a box to consume commercial media, or a box on which you can watch youtube and twitch on your TV.

Having a box that does that without spying on you (any more than youtube or twitch spies on you anyway) is compelling! I understand why people would want it.

But ... Well, it's insufficient.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

Alright, that's a bold statement, what do I mean?

De-googling your set top box and then using it to watch pirated content, youtube, tubi, and twitch only really serves to reinforce the power structures and media hegemony that allows companies like Google and Paramount and Warner Brothers/Discovery/HBO/Max and Disney to control the media landscape.

Doing this on your terms, with your software, and in a way that prevents the companies in question from making money is certainly better than paying them for the privilege, but I am proposing an envisioning an alternative.

Andrew (Television Executive)

(guess what? It's Community Media.

#CommunityMedia #DIYTV #NewEllijayTellevision

https://communitymedia.network
https://communitymedia.video
https://newellijay.tv )

Community Media – A handbook for revolutions in DIY TV

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

Look, it's like this:

When we buy stuff from major corporations, we transfer money (and therefore power) out of our local communities, and in to the pockets of CEOs and shareholders.

When we watch stuff made by major corporations, we cede our energy, time, attention, and mindshare to the things those major corporations are willing fund.

When we make stuff, or buy stuff from our communities, that wealth (and power) stays within our communities.

But what does it look like to really Distribute community media?

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

Right now, mostly, it looks like silos!

If I rip everything Google out of this box and set it up with VLC, Kodi, Newpipe, a web browser, and maybe a podcast client something like Thorium from f-droid for peertube access...

What do I get?

I get whatever files Kodi can find on my local network. I get youtube via newpipe, I get podcasts, maybe internet radio, and I can get access to the live streaming stations and VOD I run through New Ellijay Television and the Community Media Video server and whatever else folks are putting up on various peertube channels but ...

The User Experience isn't going to be great. There won't be an EPG, or if there is it will not actually be comprehensive in any meaningful sense.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

These apps aren't really designed to be consumed on a television (I mean, VLC and Kodi are, but VLC doesn't exactly give a SET TOP BOX experience, and Kodi is expecting a media server somewhere on your network full of pirated material.)

I can do some work to make this more pleasant, bypassing apps and using them as file handlers, coding up custom scripts, faking functionality by abusing android's built in conceits and concepts to look closer to what I want.

I can make it an okay user experience, perhaps not as polished as what Google can produce, but I can make it work well enough provided there is content to fill it with.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

That's the trick, though. It's still very difficult to *find* community media to consume. It is certainly being produced, but there isn't a Directory.

There isn't a place I can go to find all the good indiemedia. There's not an app I can install that show's me who is making the good stuff, and how to watch it, and how to pay them for it.

There isn't an ecosystem.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

SO! 11 posts and an hour later:

What might an ecosystem of independent media distribution look like?

What should a Community Entertainment Center have? What shouldn't it have?

How can we, as a community, provide the ecosystem through which independent media can be consumed? Is it a custom android build for various cheap set top boxes? Is it an android app? is it a roku channel and an android app and a custom android build and also some kodi plugins and a web ring and a bunch of RSS feeds?

(probably!)

Hit me with your best and worst ideas! Tell me what you want out of a community oriented set top box.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

(To begin to answer these questions for myself, I'm going to go fiddle with f-droid media apps on GoogleTV)

Fugue State Machine Moto Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 Legit. I have one of these guys and would love to finish turning it into a set-top box : https://pine64.com/product/quartz64-model-a-8gb-single-board-computer/

Oh. Phooey, they removed the SATA connector from the design. Guess that makes my board a unicorn; that’s not ideal.

QUARTZ64 Model-A 8GB Single Board Computer - PINE STORE

CORE QUAD 64-bit ARM Cortex-A55 CPU 0.8 TOPS Neural Network Acceleration Engine Embedded 32-bit RISC-V CPU MEMORY 8GB LPDDR4 System Memory optional eMMC module (up to 128GB) microSD slot DISPLAY INTERFACE eDP e-ink MIPI-DSI 4 lanes 4Kp60 10 bit Digital Video port CAMERA INTERFACE MIPI-CSI 4 lanes HUMAN INTERFACE i2c Touch Panel port optional infrared port SOUND 3.5mm stereo audio jack with mic input 2-pin Loudspeaker port COMMUNICATION Gigabit Ethernet optional SDIO Wifi/BT interface EXPANSION 1x native USB 3.0 Host Port 3x native USB 2.0 Host Port PCIe x1 Slot GPIO Bus: i2c, SPI, and UART BATTERY Onboard built-in charging circuit 3-pin 3.7v Lithium Battery with temperature protection sensing PACKAGE CONTENTS Quartz64 model A SBC board Device Warranty: 30 Days

PINE STORE

webhat Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 I've been thinking for a while that there should be an ATV UI focussed port/PR of NewPipe

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@webhat yeah. I'd love to see thorium or another peertube client be less of a trash fire with a remote too.

william ⁂ maggos Nov 21, 2023

I imagine something very much like a combined Roku/YouTube except it's actually PeerTube/FunkWhale etc and we automatically give creators a percentage of a monthly donation jar we decide the amount of. if we as a community get that amount large enough, eventually everything lives on creators' sites but is "free" to everyone without paywalls or ads cause people just decide to be that excellent to each other that creators thrive.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@wjmaggos That much, at least, we can build today.

There isn't a great peertube app for android yet, but Framsoft is dedicated to building one in the new year.

(I haven't tried thorium yet.)

william ⁂ maggos Nov 21, 2023

next step I'd petition for is PeerTube on Roku. fuck Rumble.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@wjmaggos we run our own roku app for our peertube instance, have to do it that way to get around rokus tos.

william ⁂ maggos Nov 21, 2023

are you saying there can't be an official PeerTube app on Roku?

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@wjmaggos indeed. Youtube got special dispensation, but routinely violates rokus terms of service. A general purpose peertube app would be in clear violation of roku tos.

william ⁂ maggos Nov 21, 2023

damn, that sucks.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@wjmaggos yeah! But peervue is a decent code base to start from if you wanna give it a shot anyway.

Ryuno-Ki Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 CC'ing @cymaphore here as it is a subset of search we talked earlier about.

So, when I look at it through an UX-ish lens (I'm developing Frontends, but read into adjacent fields), I can see different problems you want to solve here:

- Store the videos somewhere
- Share access to them safely
- Discover new content (ranked by relevance?)
- Schedule what to watch
- Perhaps: share your experience

Ryuno-Ki Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 @cymaphore

Multimedia content take up much more space compared to text. But hard disks are cheap (either HDD or SSD - or both? Depends on how often you read and write, I guess).

You could basically have a NAS (network attached storage) sitting somewhere.

Here, energy consumption is important because it's going to be always on.

If you want to stream it to your television, some conversion of resolution might be required. Therefore the equipment and codecs.

Ryuno-Ki Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 @cymaphore If you share content outside of your home, it would be necessary to address it. @jens made me remember URIs. So that the location is not bound to the resource (and therefore could be anywhere).

But also metadata might be relevant (title, artists, genre, series etc).

Otherwise search will be hard.

When you poke a hole into your router's firewall to allow for connections into your home network that could be a security risk.

Ryuno-Ki Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 @cymaphore

I see a disdain on algorithms. Yet there's also a demand for suggestions of interesting content, because it's simply too much.

Something like „people you know also watched“ might be an option. But then you have identity and PII to handle.

A criterion that is relevant in my personal consumption pattern is length of the film. I can estimate how much time I'm willing to spend.

Secondary factor is subtitles. (Especially for hard of hearing is not common).

Ryuno-Ki Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 @cymaphore It might be an option to include fan subs here. That would be a differentiating factor to conventional media.

Anyway, I observe also that for some series, people like to comment it online.

Also something you could include into the experience (there was a time when it was called „second screen“).

If you watch synchronous, there would be a need to schedule the playback somehow. Otherwise there's the risk of spoiling.

alcinnz Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 My main desire is to have the UX focus on my personal media collection, not others'!

Having a podcatcher/feedreader builtin too would be nice!

Oh, and ways to sync this media library between devices!

Just that would leave me pretty well satisfied...

alcinnz Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 I'm pretty well set for discovery community media, but my struggle is to find others to enjoy it with... I don't what to do about that!

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@alcinnz thats interesting! Something very RSS/Atom centric could be really useful.

alcinnz Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 Hey, what if we had meta webfeeds reviewing community media? To help promote it?

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@alcinnz I'm intrigued, but I'm not sure I get it. Use more words?

alcinnz Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 I'm not entirely sure what I mean myself...

Maybe we can optimize the UI design not just for video/audio podcasts, but also for reviews of said podcasts? Make it easy for people to subscribe to endorsed podcasts?

Also many podcasts endorse each other, this could help there...

Kit Rhett Aultman Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 You know, it's interesting because I was just talking about this over on the #Owncast chatrooms, too. As a streamer, I love Owncast because it's so fire-and-forget to set up and I can stream a DJ set whenever I want. But keeping and maintaining an audience is trickier because we lack the ecosystem. A lot of people just use Owncast and go on their own way. Without seamless discoverability, community engagement, the ability to share audiences and attention, you have...lots of silos.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@roadriverrail Peertube federation helps here. It's not perfect, and it's Allow-List based rather than open by default, but it helps.

Kit Rhett Aultman Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 Peertube and Owncast interoperate?

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@roadriverrail No, sorry.

I mean that, as someone who live streams, live streaming through peertube helps with discoverability. It's still less powerful than something like Twitch or youtube, because the overall audience is smaller, but it's better than a complete silo.

I suppose there's very little stopping peertube from being able to federate owncast livestreams, but I'd have to talk to framasoft and chocobuzz about that.

Kit Rhett Aultman Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 Owncast does run a directory service, and so you are discoverable there, but I'm thinking more about the social fabric of an ecosystem...the sorts of social things that help people find and connect to a content ecosystem...to feel like, a producer, consumer, or both, you're coming back because you're finding community, connection, audiences, peers, etc.

Owncast already has some Fedi features, so I wonder what it'd take to bridge stream notifications and info into Peertube...

Gabe Kangas Nov 22, 2023

@roadriverrail @ajroach42 Interop with PeerTube is something I wanted all along. A user on a PeerTube instance being able to follow an Owncast stream, and have it show up in the PeerTube interface would be super cool. But I ran into a lot of roadblocks, PeerTube just isn’t built to be able to support something like that. So regardless how much effort I put into it on the Owncast side, it wasn’t going to happen. At least currently.

Gabe Kangas Nov 22, 2023

@roadriverrail @ajroach42 But @johnlivingston did ping me a few months ago with some interest in making it happen. So I’m optimistic we’ll somehow figure it out one day.

Tim Ellis 🦝Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 I live in the Seattle area and I primarily shop local: Amazon and Costco. 😏

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@The_Tim I know this is a joke, but I can't tell if you mean it as a general joke or one at my expense directly. Could you please verify?

Tim Ellis 🦝Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 Haha no not at your expense, just kidding around, repeating a joke I tell occasionally when people talk about "shopping local."

FWIW, my wife and I run a small brick & mortar loose leaf tea shop, and I really do wish more people would actually support local small businesses.

Tim Ellis 🦝Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 Also as a maker and electrical engineer I am enjoying this thread a lot.

Andrew (Television Executive)Nov 21, 2023

@The_Tim one of my best friends sells tea here in GA, and I operate a coffee shop.

der.hans Nov 22, 2023

@The_Tim @ajroach42 wish I'd known about the tea shop before TeaGL at SeaGL a couple weeks ago

Glowing Cat of the Nuclear Wastelands ☣Nov 21, 2023

@ajroach42 anyone else remember when this happened with chat clients and AOhelL instant messenger?

I swear, at the height of it I was installing a new version of my client daily. Enough of us were doing it, AOhelL eventually gave up, but it was so frustrating until then.