Answering this question: https://law-and-politics.online/@short[email protected]/111429189190084052

Nobody really knows what is meant by "officer of the government." It might include the president. It might not. A president occupies a unique position under the Constitution.

Basically what the judge did was punt the issue to the appellate court.

The judge found that Trump incited an insurrection (a finding of fact) but didn't find that he was an officer of the federal government (a matter of law).

Here's why the distinction matters . . .

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shorty60 🇺🇸 (@[email protected])

@[email protected] Have you seen the Colorado decision on the 14th amendment case to keep Trump off the ballot there? If so, can you explain why they would hold that the President is not an officer of the government? Constitutional law may not be your thing but I value your thoughts. This one really perplexes me.

Mastodon @ SDF

If an issue that goes to an appellate court is an issue of law, the appellate court reviews de novo, which means that no deference is given to the lower court.

See:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/de_novo

With an issue of fact, appellate courts are more deferential to lower courts.

I didn't read the decision but this is from ABC⤵️

As far as what the judge was thinking, your guess is as good as mine, but from this, I'd guess that . . .

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de novo

LII / Legal Information Institute

. . . the judge found more textual support for finding that the president is not an officer than for the finding that he is.

Picture a balance scale with slightly more weight on one side.

So now it goes to the appellate court, which might have more nerve than the trial court.

The important part of the finding, though, was that he incited an insurrection.

The appellate court can overturn that, but it unlikely and more difficult because of the greater deference to findings of facts.

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Welcome to the world of constitutional and statutory interpretation.

Basically, the Constitution means whatever the Supreme Court says it means because the Supreme Court is the final arbiter and the Constitution is stuffed full of phrases and words that can be interpreted in different ways.

An interpretation of the word "reasonable" in the Fourth Amendment has literally filled books.

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The Third Section of the Fourteenth Amendment was added to the Constitution after the Civil War to keep former Confederates out of the government.

The idea was to prevent backsliding.

It didn't work because, by the late 1890s, the government and Supreme Court were stuffed full of Confederate sympathizers who rolled back the advances made during Reconstruction and gave us racial segregation.

You can keep out the insurrectionists but not the insurrection sympathizers.

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Judge Luttig offered a passionate critique of the Colorado judge's decision.

With most legal issues, it is possible to argue both sides.

People read these passionate critiques and think "The judge was wrong."

The only conclusion is "Luttig believes the judge was wrong."

Maybe my attitude comes from defense appellate work, which means mostly losing and rarely liking court decisions.

(My clients always lost at the trial level and the presumptions on appeal were against them.)

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Adding one more comment:

The court left wide open the possibility that the appellate court may find that Trump was an officer.

Sort of humbly, the court didn't think it should be the one to make the call.

I think that Colorado certainly has the right to keep Trump off the ballot. I also think that these court proceedings would satisfy due process.

So we'll see.

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@Teri_Kanefield The reasoning of the insurrection clause appears quite general: If a person has broken their oath of office, they cannot take that oath again. For it would be presumed they would break it again. An “officer” is then anyone who would take an oath of office. This reasoning applies to Presidents. Breaking their oath to the constitution through insurrection means they can never be trusted to take the oath again. What is so difficult about that?
@GJGoldberg @Teri_Kanefield “The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America.
He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years”
So, the court argues that holding an Office does not make you an officer 🤔
@hansbot @GJGoldberg Does anyone know of any past case in which the term "officer" has been clearly defined? Obviously there's the military context and holders of public office could be considered as officers too. Need case law and precedent though, I believe (Am not a lawyer but have studied law a little).
The Two Experts on Section Three - Special Guests William Baude and Michael Stokes Paulsen — Amarica's Constitution

***CLE available*** In a special episode, the two distinguished authors of a recent major article, which dives deep into Section 3 of the Fourteenth Amendment and finds that Donald Trump is disqualified from the Presidency, join us for a thoughtful and rigorous examination of the tough questions about their conclusions. These are leading conservative scholars who have gone where their methodologies, and the law, has taken them. Reaction has been swift and impassioned around the country, and in this episode they respond for the first time to some of the critiques, explore the implications of their work, and in doing so, they bring an integrity to our civic conversation. This is an important discussion of important issues, by real experts. Note: Continuing Legal Education Credit available after listening by going to podcast.njsba.com.

@hansbot Very interesting analysis and the Colaordo court is mentioned too. But no mention of the definition of the word "officer". Would love to hear a revised version analysing the recent decision. Eventually, though, this will end up in front of the Supreme Court @GJGoldberg
@hansbot @GJGoldberg This is well worth a read and is very up to date too. And exams why the president may not be an officer as such too: https://law-and-politics.online/@Teri_Kanefield/111434058041703416
Teri Kanefield (@[email protected])

I expanded the discussion about the Colorado court's decision regarding Trump and the Fourteenth Amendment, and I added it to yesterday's blog post. You can see it here: https://terikanefield.com/parchment-barriers-and-the-dangers-of-hope/ (If you get that error message, just wait a moment and try again)

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