Dan GoodinIt should be clear now that it was and remains a catastrophic mistake for people to view privately owned social media platforms as any kind of public resource. People didn't know better a decade ago. They have no excuse now.
Bruno Nicoletti@dangoodin I’d go further and say _any_ automated platform that relies on advertising for revenue will always end up deeply enshitified as they have to chase “engagement”. And what engages most is outrage. So we end up with systems, that by design, drag you further and further in the world of grift and crazies.
Jo - pièce de résistance@bjn @dangoodin
I have to strongly disagree about what engages most. If Mastodon is a platform without that variable...then I can confidently say my most popular posts are just posts about beautiful things. I get the most boosts, likes, comments, etc. on really nice things most.
But I was throttled first by ad-based social media and that is how they get you to dance for the devil to get seen and they groom and channel the outrage type of engagement, rather than the joyful kind.
b4ux1t3 
#1️⃣@JoBlakely @bjn @dangoodin it's a pretty well-documented bit of psychology that folks are more likely to engage with outrage/negativity than the alternatives.
I'm not saying it's always true for everyone, but the sheer success of that kind of content speaks to the general truth of that psychology.
Edit: and it could well be that the atmosphere of the fediverse is leading to a difference here. I, too, get a lot of engagement on positivity and beauty.
I suspect there's a double whammy at play here. As Chris notes, many people have a natural inclination to engage more with negativity. Then, as Jo notes and algorithms promote that negative content over less negative stuff. What a toxic stew.
@dangoodin @b4ux1t3 @bjn
Mastodon is that 'control' in a scientific test, where nothing is done to alter the algorithm, to compare to. Is it more rageful here? Sure there are problems, but those hate accounts are not doing well here. People are avoiding them, more than engaging.
I'd like to see a study properly comparing these.
Mastodon is that 'control' in a scientific test, where nothing is done to alter the algorithm, to compare to. Is it more rageful here? Sure there are problems, but those hate accounts are not doing well here. People are avoiding them, more than engaging.
I'd like to see a study properly comparing these.
Fair point.
@JoBlakely @dangoodin @b4ux1t3 There’s no sophisticated algorithm in Mastodon though. My feed is simply who I follow, not what strangers have upvoted and the platform pushes to me in the hope of keeping on there so they can sell my eyes to advertisers. That automation of engagement, and our tendacy to engage with outrage, is what drives the platforms to deliver insane crap. Ontop of that you have bad actors like Musk and troll farms, and you get a perfect storm of lies.
Krupo@JoBlakely @dangoodin @b4ux1t3 @bjn yup when someone goes unhinged and ranty here it feels much easier to mute or ignore on so many levels.
As I've said before the big platforms actually started filling me with a sense of dread when I got any sort of big engagement on a post, whereas here it's generally constructive discussions and often fascinating insights. Or just friendly affirmation.
@b4ux1t3
What were they comparing it to? What is the 'test'? It is just presumption and commentary and I don't think the studies are worth shit scientifically. I want to know their parameters.
Are they only comparing one oligarch blood sucking social media platform to another?
Did they look through history?
Sure when important things are going on, people are going to be upset and have things to say, but it's not what people like to engage with. It may be what some must.
@JoBlakely I mean, it's not just in the context of social media.
DOI Numbers:
10.1037/0033-2909.134.3.383 - Not All Emotions Are Created Equal: The Negativity Bias in
Social–Emotional Development, 2008
10.1037/1089-2680.5.4.323 - Bad is stronger than good, 2001
10.1002/ejsp.2420220502 - Positive-negative asymmetry or "When the heart needs a reason", 1992
This concept of a negativity bias goes back much further than digital social media does.
@b4ux1t3
Many psychologists and Psychiatrists themselves have that negativity bias. So their seeing it like that is their own projections tured into 'authority'. Most diagnosis are rooted in only seeing the negative. That is their special skillset. Most of the DSM is negativity bias.
Many psychologists and Psychiatrists themselves have that negativity bias. So their seeing it like that is their own projections tured into 'authority'. Most diagnosis are rooted in only seeing the negative. That is their special skillset. Most of the DSM is negativity bias.
@JoBlakely again (sorry for the rapid messages), it's a strong possibility that the (well-documented) negativity bias of individuals can be offset by things like level of education, emotional upbringing, societal norms where they live.
I'm not debating that it's the _only_ force at play here, I'm just pointing out that there is very strong evidence that many, of not most, people are better engaged by negativity than by positivity.
@JoBlakely I make it a point to not engage with negativity unless I think it's genuine or important that I do. And I did that before I learned about the psychological bias.
But you and I are an n of 2. :D
@b4ux1t3
I don't believe it. People get more engaged and motivated by a rousing encouraging speech. They get remembered for generations. That snarky line will be forgotten. That's why oligarchs prefer it.
People get motivated when they feel supported, can connect without having to compete with one another to connect.
The whole format is outrageous. It just breeds outrage.
Dec [{(
)}]@b4ux1t3 @JoBlakely @bjn @dangoodin
I can't find the meme now, but it goes like this:
"Murphy's Law says that if you post something incorrect online, more people will rush in to correct your mistake."
(lots of engagement)
(including the correct answer)
-versus-
"Does anyone know the name of that law about posting something incorrect online?"
(no engagement)
@dec23k @b4ux1t3 @JoBlakely @bjn @dangoodin lol yes it's a meme but it is also an accurate description of Reddit. ;)