@mattblaze I strongly agree that he was criminal, corrupt, and incompetent, but so far as I can tell he did not in fact ever urge the public to inject bleach.
(He _did_ urge his scientific advisors to investigate whether injecting disinfectant might be effective against COVID-19. Which is a stupid idea, and even if it hadn't been a public press briefing wasn't the place to raise it. But it was definitely "someone should investigate whether this works" not "the general public should start doing this", and I think the distinction matters.)
@gjm Nope. He made that statement publicly and prominently, undercutting non-crackpot measures.
There is no way to defend this.
This. Stop trying to rationalize truly fucking abysmal behavior, actions, and malfeasance.
@NosirrahSec @mattblaze I'm not trying to rationalize it. It was irrational and stupid and dangerous. It just wasn't the _specific_ irrational and stupid and dangerous thing that Matt said.
I am very much in favour of reminding people of the awful things that Donald Trump has said and done, and of the awful things he is likely to do if elected again. I think this will be more effective if we only do it for awful things he actually has said and done, both because it's better to tell the truth than not and because it's bad to give his supporters an excuse to respond with "no, he didn't do that" _and ignore the fact that he actually did something similar which was also very bad_.
@gjm @NosirrahSec @mattblaze
Rationalize this.
gjm, you are simply wildly wrong:
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/04/23/trump-bleach-one-year-484399
@artemesia @NosirrahSec @mattblaze Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see anything in that article that says anything different from what I've been saying.
Here's the opening sentence of that article: "One year ago today, President Donald Trump took to the White House briefing room and encouraged his top health officials to study the injection of bleach into the human body as a means of fighting Covid."
Which is exactly what I said he did. And yes, it was stupid and irresponsible and dangerous (which is also what I've said throughout this very strange discussion).
What the article _doesn't_ say, because it isn't true, is that Donald Trump urged the public to inject bleach. And that's all I've been saying.
Do split that hair.
@mattblaze He did indeed say it publicly and prominently, and it was stupid. But he didn't say that the general public should inject bleach.
I'm not saying it wasn't stupid and dangerous. Only that it wasn't "urging the public to inject bleach".
@gjm Yes it was. Poison control centers had an uptick in people ingesting and injecting poisons after he said this.
But sure, nitpick my choice of words. You are clearly a very smart person.
@mattblaze There was an uptick in suicides across Europe after Goethe published "The sorrows of young Werther" but that doesn't mean he told people to kill themselves.
It's not nitpicking to say that it's better to say true things than false things. There are quite enough _completely true_ terrible things one can say about Donald Trump without needing to say false things as well.
@gjm @mattblaze a competent person that genuinely believed they were making a useful suggestion mightâve put those bizarre ideas forward in private. A competent person would know that asking questions like that publicly would cause desperate people to try it.
While I normally applaud people fighting disinformation this isnât helpful, because while what Matt said is a simplification itâs not incorrect.
@gjm @mattblaze It's really not worth arguing what Trump does or does not say when he's off-script.
Go back, read the transcript or look at video of the statement. What he said was meandering and incoherent. He didn't tell people to drink bleach and he also didn't direct anyone to research cures. He just made word-shaped sounds for a few minutes while everyone smiled and humored him and tried to pretend the President of the United States of America wasn't rambling like he was in line at a casino's noontime buffet.
This was a man rambling on about something interesting he read and barely remembered, like people do when they don't know what they're talking about at all but feel compelled to say something. He has an extremely nasty habit of doing that: just stringing words together and letting other people figure out the meaning. It's why people so often interpret his words differently: because he has the conman's gift of never actually saying anything of value, never taking a concrete position that could be disproven, and rarely even getting to the point.
The words that come out of his mouth are SchrĂśdinger's sentences when he's off-script. He rambles like my grandfather at the dinner table, only we didn't elect my grandfather to be leader of the free world for awhile (thank God).
I wish we hadn't elected someone like him instead, because it's four years we ain't getting back.