boemThe public doesn’t understand the risks of a Trump victory. That’s the media’s fault
Now the question is, how do we help them understand? When someone’s that disillusioned and disconnected, how can we make meaningful changes in their worldview?
Or, the other sides gotta get up and vote. But that can be easier said than done. And there’s some scary stuff happening in polling places.
Help them understand by running a candidate that isn’t just ‘the lesser evil.’
They won’t run a Bernie until -we- start to pay attention and demand it.
photonic_sorcererWe’ve already tried that - twice. Even though it’s very possible that someone like Bernie could garner votes from both right and left.
JWBananasLeast-Electable Candidate in US History, Claims Area Man, of Candidate Who Won With Most Votes Ever in US History
And lost to… checks notes
Donald Trump.
That’s only because everyone was voting against Trump. This is the fault of our voting system. It is why we need rank choice voting, so we can vote for the people we like instead of against the people we dislike.
StumblinbearCandidate Who Won With Most Votes Ever in US History
Which has the exact same vibe as “the stock market hit all time highs!”
Yeah, no shit. The population is increasing. What else is new?
Considering the historically low voter turnout for his perer in the prior election, I’m not sure I see your point.
CorkyskogIf we want change, you need at least 2 full presidential cycles, probably more. You would need to build up a grassroots third party, start getting candidates who are willing to run for all the unglamorous positions like town selectman and school committee and work your way up from there. No magical third party president is going to come out of the woodwork and solve all your problems, and even if they did, the president is mostly just a figurehead.
I suspect that there’s a lot more people than we think who would rather not vote for either Trump or Biden, but they don’t want to throw their vote away.
This is why we need rank choice voting. It would eliminate any risk of people voting for a third party while also voting for the lesser of two evils put forth by the D & R’s.
The only reason I can see why rank choice voting is not already everywhere is because they know it would strip power away from the top.
EldritchThat’s the argument of a child. You’re perfect candidate is someone else’s lesser evil.
I think what they’re saying is they want a ‘true’ “lesser evil” type candidate like Bernie Sanders than a candidate who has been outwardly bad towards a significant number of popular positions.
Sure, Biden is doing a decent amount of progressive work now, but he’s still working on a legacy of being a milk-toast Democrat who’s partially responsible for the entire war on drugs and the like.
The point isn’t that something is always bad for someone. The point is they’re barely offering apples tied to strings.
None of that negates the point. Honestly, the far right feels that Trump is lesser evil.
The point is, these are the candidates that, collectively as Americans we deserve. Sure they aren’t the ones we need. But they’re the ones generations of complacency, lack of education and participation have left us with. Not just us. But you get the point.
Now we can argue that conservatives thinking Trump is the lesser evil is abjectly stupid. And it is. But is it really any stupider than self defeating lefties constantly invoking Bernie Sanders name. Acting all butthurt on his account, when the man himself doesn’t. Taking the wrong lessons away from a showing that surprised even Sanders. Making democrats take notice, giving this Johnny come lately actual power within the Democratic party. Literally pulling them to the left. Constantly whining and bemoaning one of the most consequential democratic administrations in modern history, at least since the civil rights era.
Yeah, I’m not a fan of Biden. He’s made a lot of horrible and bone-headed moves throughout his career. But oh my god it’s so true what they say. The worst enemy of the left. Their mortal kryptonite. Is the left.
I agree with your sentiment. I just like to not downplay how important optics are. As much as I’m sure we both wish people were logical and informed, neither are true about most people.
Regardless of how good Biden presently is, he is working with a colored history. It genuinely sucks some people cannot look past the tree for the forest, but that’s how people work.
Unless we don’t want a democracy where people get a voice, we HAVE to deal with idiots and gaslit zealots being in the audience. As unreachable as the extremists are, there is still a HUGE swathe of people who are succeptible to what the extremists say.
Biden specifically, I think people are being too judgemental and dismissive on those parts of the left who refuse to vote for him.
“The left” isn’t as divided as you might think. It’s a political realm that contains multitudes of people. Many, many people are simply disaffected with Republicans and Democrats and aren’t sycophantic weirdos latching on to a personality.
As people get more and more familiar with what actually constitutes leftist positions, the only “infighting” there will be will be between those who want to use authority and force to get their way, and those that don’t.
I think we both know what to call people who want to use violence to effect their politics.
oce 🐆I find that what’s best is to listen to those people, if they are aprochable, and ask understanding questions as for why they think that or what do they think about such subject. Sometimes pushing them to explain themselves will trigger some internal reflection without triggering their fear of losing face. Then if they ask about your opinion, you may express it in a non confrontational way. I think this how some of those people can progress.
It’s less a matter of understanding than it is a matter of basic economics.
Try convincing a wage earner that it’s worth it to miss a day of work when the minimum wage hasn’t increased in 15 years and they’re coping with 30% to 50% increases in their cost of living under Joe Biden, who had control of Congress.
At some point it just clicks that your situation isn’t improving no matter who is elected.
BombOmOmOne of the issues I noticed was the media was very over-focused on every little nitpicky thing to the point many people just stopped giving a shit. So when anything big happened, many just didn’t bother to look.
The boy cried wolf 100 times when there was only an ant; when there was a wolf nobody cared to listen to the cries.
What side of this issue do those who own the media support?
They support the next-quarter profits side. Which means low quality and max sensationalism.
IninewCrowIs it a failing on people’s part? A failing on the part of the media?
Or is it all just by design and what our corporate owners would like to see.
People like Trump don’t appear in a vacuum or rise to power from just charisma.
They come to power because of monied interests and wealthy backers and supporters … no one makes it that far and stays in that position that long without the funding and support of very wealthy people.
They want him in power … that’s why he is still in front of us and in the headlines on a regular basis.
Dieguito 🦝The only positive side of an otherwise sensationalistic and loosely based on facts article (most focused on fears about supposed threats to democracy a Republican president would imply) - and I repeat the only one - is that it admits bad journalism and disinformation are a part of the problem. I’m witnessing this from Europe, we have bad press, biased press, simplistic and superficial press which values what “sells” better than what rises the critical sense of their audience. This is the result. We’d better prepare ourselves because totalitarianisms are really around the corner if we continue down this path.
I mean, the solution isn’t to just say the other guy is bad.
It’s to run someone who is good.
The solution is to start paying attention and demand better. They won’t change until they’re forced to. That’s going to take numbers.
That’s a great solution to win an election if it were easy to find a golden candidate that people like and can’t be portrayed as less than ideal by the other side. Right now, I’ll happily settle and vote for less than perfect if that candidate is the only one not courting fascism. And I certainly won’t go throwing my vote to someone else just because the only guy standing between democracy and tyranny isn’t checking all my boxes. No, sir. Democracy is too important to throw away just because “I don’t love one candidate and actively fear the other, so I just won’t bother.” Democracy is my single-issue this election. Get out and vote, because this time, democracy is cracking, and it is at risk of collapse to fascism.
I mean, that’s good and all but the reality may be different.
You can tell people what they should care about and what they should do, but they probably won’t do it unless they want to.
Hmmm, how on earth is it possible for you to have replied to 26 different posts in the last 60 minutes, across multiple articles, many with multiple paragraphs. Fastest typer in the world?
S*** man you might be a slow type if you can’t type that much in an hour.
It isn’t so much the volume of typing, it’s the typing a thought-out answer to all those various articles and responses that seems curious. I type at a pretty fast rate, myself, but I don’t consider someone else’s comments and think up (and then type) fact based replies in that timeframe. My comment about typing speed was more me implying that a 3-day-old account that is responding that quickly to that many people on so many subjects in such a short amount of time – well, it walks and quacks like a bot.
Buddy I just went through that account page. There ain’t no multiple paragraph length dissertations like you are implying. Most of those “paragraphs” are one or two sentences long. That’s just basic literacy.
Exactly. If this was something Democrats cared about, pick a better candidate. Biden’s approval rating is as bad as Trump’s at the same time in his presidency. The guy squeaked by with a win when it should have been a blowout.
NickWhat about Biden is bad exactly? Yeah, he’s old. Yeah, he has the exact same position on Israel as literally every US president since its inception. But what about Biden makes him not “good” in your eyes?
I support Biden not because he’s an anti-Trump, but because he’s a genuinely good man who gets things done. He knows how to work the system and gets results.
mkhopperI support Biden not because he’s an anti-Trump, but because he’s a genuinely good man who gets things done. He knows how to work the system and gets results.
As do I. The problem this time around though will be the number of younger independent and third party runners that might end up pulling votes from the “Biden is too old” crowd. And unfortunately, every vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump.
Which is why we need ranked choice voting so we steal power away from this bipartisan system that robs us of our actual choice.
system that robs us of our actual choice.
Let’s cut out the middleman and go straight to direct voting.
Although a president is one of the few positions that I think a country could actually use, even with direct voting. Just for diplomatic relations, cause we can’t all talk to the world leaders at once.
TotallynotJessicaHundreds of micro votes a year? I think people should be ABLE to directly vote for things, but most legislation is better handled by representatives. I’m interested in politics and even I wouldn’t be happy voting directly on every policy. That’s way too much stuff to be informed on.
That’s fine. Nobody is forcing you to vote.
Other people will vote on the things you’re not interested in. In many ways, it’s the same as having a representative vote for you.
QuokkaNo genuinely good person
Provides weapons and support for the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian peoples.
Supported the invasion of Afghanistan
Votes against marriage equality.
Voted in favour of the largest ever expansion of police power and expansion of the death penalty.
Etc etc.
Biden is not a good person, Biden is a democrat, a right wing scumbag.
Sometimes you’ve got to pick the better of the two and continue until you have someone great.
A lot of what you’re saying is from a long time ago, like a quarter century ago.
He might not be great but if you’re digging that deep for negatives that’s telling.
Copying my comment from the other reply here:
The question was specifically about why they don’t like Biden. I’m sure they don’t like Trump either, seeing as they called Biden a right-wing scumbag. They answered the question and you people are still like “but Trump!”
If you can’t criticize the things you agree with, they will never improve. If you like something, you should be harder on it than things you don’t like.
I didn’t mention Trump once.
Sometimes you’ve got to pick the better of the two and continue until you have someone great.
Who’s the other one of the two? You didn’t explicitly say his name, but you did mention him.
It’s generally a bad idea to criticize someone for positions they no longer have and that they now argue against. It’s not really fair to say Biden sucks because of a policy he supported decades ago and no longer does. People should be allowed to change.
Even more, people should be ENCOURAGED to change. One thing that most politicians lack is the ability to reassess a position, and come to the conclusion that they were wrong.
If you blame someone for changing their mind on a position, you just encourage them to dig their heels in deeper and not be open to new information and ideas.
I don’t really agree. We can critique some one on a policy they may have changed position on if they continue to participate in politics and that policy still stands. Until they have an active hand in reversing what they imposed or step away from the job because they admit they are unfit they don’t get the benefit of the doubt.
Actions speak louder than words sort of thinking here, which I’m inclined to believe.
At the very least, politicians who have changed their stances on issues they voted or worked towards in the past should make reversing those changes part of their agenda. Shows good faith, and is beholden to other branches of the government at that point.
Very often a policy can persist despite someone changing their views on it. Biden is President, he’s not in Congress anymore. The things he can do to effect changes that reflect his own changing views are different now. An example is his changing views on abortions over the last 18 years. In 2006, he stated he believed in limiting abortions, today he’s doing everything possible to protect access but as President, there’s not much he can do about Supreme Court decision and House/states controlled by Republicans. His views changed, but the political landscape makes actually accomplishing broader change near-impossible. That can’t be on him.
Who should it be on? If we held our politicians accountable maybe they wouldn’t have a strangle hold on our government. He has a choice. He can admit fault and resign.
Sometimes? Every US election in my life time was a choice of the lesser evil.
Now that the Republicans run a literal fascist who’s endangering democracy with project 2025 and his promises to imprison his political enemies, the Democrats could even run war criminal W and you’d have to vote for him because any vote not for Bush would be for Trump.
Democracy is completely broken in the US.
You should not support Trump for the same reason
The question was specifically about why they don’t like Biden. I’m sure they don’t like Trump either, seeing as they called Biden a right-wing scumbag. They answered the question and you people are still like “but Trump!”
If you can’t criticize the things you agree with, they will never improve. If you like something, you should be harder on it than things you don’t like.
Sorry for the confusion. I do agree what he says (in fact, I’m the one that upvoted his comment), I mean, since you’ve got to choose from two “bad” candidates, I’m pointing out that Trump will still not be an option, given that Biden is not really good a president. I hope there would be someone like Obama sometimes.
Lmao seethe commie . Enjoy 4 more years, then Buttigieg after.
I’m not American.
I’ll enjoy continuing to watch your country turn to shit from a distance while I enjoy my communist singlepayer healthcare system, you know the thing Biden continues to fight against you having.
Lmao ok.
You’re no different than a Trump supporter, you don’t care if you suffer as long as you can make others feel mad.
I hope you live a long, full life, and stay mad about it forever
I hope “owning the commies” provides for you later in life.
It’s always paid off. Best part is it requires 0 effort outside the occasional forum comment.