sv1sjpEU seeks to make 10-second instant bank payments a reality
Meanwhile we had TWINT in Switzerland for like a decade.
How is Australia ahead of Europe! We have Osko which allows instant transfer(seconds) upto $10,000 per day.
It’s fantastic.
Switzerland has had TWINT for almost a decade.
nicetriangleYeah there's iDeal in the Netherlands which is also instant
Yeah but that’s the problem, each country has their own solution, with no interoperability. Whether it’s MobilePay, Swish, Vips or PayPal or whatever, they are all only ubiquitous within their own country.
Yeah that I agree with. I have to use Wise to do transfers between the US and EU and it's kinda clunky and the fees add up.
It’s not that it doesn’t exist, but it’s an extra paid option.
AnamanaI don’t have to pay extra for it, but it doesn’t always work
For my bank, instant is free but requires the receiver to also have instant sepa support.
We’re talking about payments across different countries. Inside each country payments have been instant for a while
Not in Germany, at least not when using different banks.
federalreverse-oldMost banks have an instant payment option that comes with a fee.
tryptaminev 🇵🇸 🇺🇦 🇪🇺Which is a fucking insult. The moment i pay anything with a debit card the payment is already noted in my account, just the formal transfer of the money hasn’t happened yet. But both banks already know the transaction and they know that they will do the transaction, everything is there already. But they just didn’t do the switch.
It is like you would go to an airport, have your luggaged checked in, go through the security, board the plane and everything is ready. Also the starting lane is empty. But the flight will wait until the next day, because thats how it has been done since the days of olde.
It’s also such a dumb idea to cut this feature. People will just substitute bank payments for PayPal.
I’m pretty sure this new ruling is only for bank transfers, not card payments.
Your card payment is technically instant, since you get the goods in the store at he same time as the money leaves your balance. Both parts agree that it happened. The waiting time until the store actually gets the money deposited in their bank isn’t dependent on bank. First it sits in the terminal until it is reported to the card company at the end of day. Depending on the specific agreement they can then accrue several days of transactions before even starting doing the bank transfer. Some do it daily, but I don’t know of anyone doing it more frequently than that. For debit cards that is. Other payment methods can be faster or slower, but it really isn’t the bank to blame for this.
Bank transfers should be faster than card settlements. The current setup is that banks also acrue transactions and exchange them one or two times daily. This has one benefit for users, since at a known time, they can surely know that there won’t be coming more payments that day. This information is f.i. usable for debt collectors. Doing faster payments is obviously better, but it will also mean that due times need to be specified by the hour and will probably cause some arguments about when a payment was actually done. Also even with faster payments, interest calculations are done on a daily basis, not hourly, so there’ll still be a technical cut-off time that determines who actually had the money on that day even if it was moved to different accounts several times on a day. So sure, it may theoretically free up some money, but it won’t make much practical difference anyway.
In 2020 only 62,4% of the banks in the EU supported it.
Then I would suggest switching.
Even my Sparkasse which charges for everything through the nose doesn’t charge anything for SEPA Instant Payments
That’s not true for every bank. My bank supports instant payments (for free) regardless of the receiving bank.
The whole EU already has SEPA Instant Payments which allow the transfer of up to 100.000€ per transaction in under 3 seconds
And free if I remember correctly. I never used it because my bank was like “Fees might apply”. Trying to figure out which fees and how much was pretty much impossible.
In Germany it’s generally 1€ per transaction 🤡
Nope. It’s not.
My Sparkasse charges nothing
That’s rather the exception than the norm. All my banks charge 1€. All Sparkassen I researched you pay at least something:
www.sskm.de/de/home/…/echtzeit-ueberweisung.html
There it is 0.75€
Here it is of my Sparkasse, 0€ (Screenshot because I don’t want to give away to much private information)
Don’t doubt that but as I said, this is the exception rather than the norm.
That’s a shame
This is the least weird aspect about the Sparkassen system. They served their purpose but are being obsolete these days.
Sparda Bank ≠ Sparkasse
True, of course. But the Volksbanken are similar to the Sparkassen when it comes to confusing customers.
In Greece is 4-6€ per transaction for every 100€😊 (now we have created the interbanking system called IRIS which you can send money to an IBAN linked with your phone number for free)
I can’t wait for the day when consumers can cut banks out of their lives.
How would you get loans without banks?
From the central bank at slightly above policy interest rates. Cutting out as many middlemen as possible should be imperative for our age of technology.
BerührtGrasMaybe make the bank Apps a little more intuitive to use and make it easier to send recurring payments to your friends and the monopoly of paypal in germany could disappear
bob_lemonYeah. It’s really a UI issue at this point. Just a simple frontend to facilitate SEPA transactions to contacts (which could just be a simple Name -> IBAN map stored locally)
I could imagine something like an IBAN protocol - open an IBAN link as in iban://AB26374838388 directly with your banking app and auto fill the bank transfer menu. Only add the amount of money you want to transfer.
No idea what other implications that would have e.g. for security though
Oh, add an
?amount=32€ as well as a text=Pizza parameter and you're almost there ...
KevinDammit we’ve just made UPI
Separate
?amount=32 and ¤cy=Euro to add currency support.
I thought about that, but I think it's actually more error prone, because people might just be setting
?amount=32 and leaving out currency which might lead to unexpected behaviour. Implementors tend to interpret this differently and one app might take the default currency and the other might fail to accept it, and that kind of different behaviour is a common source of security issues. Having a single unified parameter that must always contain the value and currency "solves" that issue.
Makes it a bit more annoying to parse, though I definitely see your point.
However, you’re still proposing a standard: “has to include both the currency and the amount in the parameter”, so why not split them up at that point?
Idont’t think that’s a good idea, too many peoplr quickly pressing pay and then they tealizef only afyer paying thay there’s an extra 0
You know, it’s good to put failsafes and all, but at some point it’s just PEBKAC.
ObiAh yes, PEBKAC, the most common error after ID-10T.
There's still plenty of steps that your bank app can (and will) take to verify this is as intended. Requiring the user to "parse" the URI is not scalable anyway, the app needs to present the information clearly (i.e. "Do you really want to transfer 123.45€ to IBAN abcd, you have not transferred money to this IBAN before, the IBAN indicates a bank in <country>" where the money amount is clearly highlighted).
I agree, still having to input the money manually is the best failsafe, how many people are used to just automatically hitting whatever button to make a message go away for example (even more with the cookies), best failsafe is inputting the money manually, you’d never mistakenly/automatically do that.
ahtoThere’s a standard that does this in form of a QR code: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/EPC_QR_code
True, my bank also supports this. I already saw QR-Codes on some invoices but never used it… will try it out next time.
Main problem I see is that as it stands it’s insanely easy to forge a SEPA mandate. Ever had to fill one out? It’s literally just a piece of paper saying “I, John Doe, allow XXX to take money for services rendered from my acount AB1234. [signature]”. The wonder of legacy processes built for companies with fax-based workflows…
I believe only some “trusted” commercial customers are authorized to turn in SEPA mandates (I know my ISP went into some bankruptcy proceedings and lost their ability to use their SEPA mandates for instance), but still, that makes me somewhat wary about who I give my IBAN to. I’d certainly not put it up online for anyone to see.
Didn’t know it was this simple, that’s stupid.
I believe though that in today’s day and and of banking apps this should be very easily solvable with inapp confirmations
Let’s hope the old way dies
Maybe I’m missing something here, don’t we already have this UI from our banking apps?
Alternatively, let’s kill contact lists completely and do this some other way. Contact lists are already a privacy disaster, allowing users to compromise all their friends’ personal information without a hint of consent.
I’d suggest providing alternatives before killing the current best solution
Speak for yourself. Speaking for myself, I don’t even use my contacts app for this reason. When the “current best solution” involves telling Big Tech the identity particulars of all your friends, it is not a solution to anything. If this had not been normalized by Google and Apple 15 years ago, it would surely be illegal.
Jesus Christ then don’t use it if you mind, but overall, it’s the best solution for keeping track of people’s phone numbers.
You’re saying kill it but not offering a better choice, you’ll never accomplish anything like this.
Well pardon me but “Jesus Christ” perhaps some of your friends never asked you to share their names and phone numbers with Google or anyone else just because it makes life convenient for you.
Absolutely. The banking App of the direct bank comdirect in germany is already fine. If they add a feature which remembers their latest manual transactions and automatically ads them to your contact list. Boom easy to use instant payment method
I just want an easier way to give money to homeless people, without them having to depend on an electricity supply.
AnUnusualRelicMaybe we could issue tokens for a given value or something like that?