Any time you want to help out, go ahead...
Any time you want to help out, go ahead...
Available options include:
Most people choose option 3.
This is a classic argument called “the problem of evil” which says if God exists then why is there evil on earth, implying He should intervene otherwise it means God either:
The Muslim answer is that this short life is a test and the real eternal life will be a reward based on how we lived and submitted to God. The harder the trial, the greater the recompense. This means the rapist will be held responsible for his wrongdoing and is given eternal hell. Responsibility starts around the age of puberty, when a person starts knowing how to differentiate between bad and good. So children who die before that are given eternal bliss.
Atheists, who do not believe in God and yet talk about him by picking and choosing which concepts they want to include in their caricature and which they want to ignore, often present this straw-man and conclude: therefore there is no God.
In your paradigm this life all there is: there is no afterlife, therefore no consequences. Which means that evil doers get away with whatever they did in their life. Hitler? He ended his life and so he got away with what he did.
So of course in your worldview where there is no possible justice you are pessimistic and do not understand when a person stands firm regardless of the tribulations he/she is facing.
Sounds like you're saying that children dying is the good ending...? And, that Hitler being forced to hide and shoot himself in a bunker while his evil empire was ripped to shreds was getting away with it unless someone believes in your version of god?
So, you're clearly in some demented version of option 3, the most common option, as I outlined.
Maybe option 1 with the whole child death thing though, idk...
Sounds like you’re saying that children dying is the good ending
In your world view life is unjust and there is so much evil (you explain it otherwise but you agree there is evil). So in all objectivity would you want a child to live long and suffer?
Hitler’s life ended in the blink of an eye and he has no care for whatever remained after him as he was no longer there. In your version of the world, he just ceased to exist. What did he pay as consequences then?
Care to defend your paradigm?
You've never faced down your own mortality or been in a seriously dark place, have you? I have. I don't care how bad Hitler was, it's not a pleasant feeling to contemplate ending things. It's painful. It's a position that you are put in by pain. I have enough empathy to realize that.
But more importantly, I'm not super fixated on punishment in general. I think that Hitler was obviously a horribly bad person, and that by him ending things he could no longer cause harm.
That people who believe in some god or other seem hyper fixated on retribution is not something in your favor. It does not paint your or your god in a good light. Good would be preventing bad things from happening in the first place.
Similarly, with regards to children, it is better not to have them if you can't even make a reasonably successful effort to provide them with a more hopeful and better world full of greater opportunity and wonder and joy. That is the merciful route.
You religious people with your notions of duty and retribution, pain and punishment are not painting a world or paradigm created by any kind of good entity.
You come into an atheism community and act all high and mighty as if you have something to impart to US?
It's laughable. You have nothing but unfounded trash. You don't come here to convince us. Be honest with yourself for one goddamned second. You come here to try and firm up the non-existent foundations of your faltering faith.
You have no proof or value to offer. Just gaping, naked need.
You’ve never faced down your own mortality or been in a seriously dark place, have you? I have.
I’m sorry you lived something which left that kind of mark on you. However my or your anecdotal experiences do not constitute an argument.
So basically what you are saying is you don’t care about justice?
Evil needs to exist for us to recognise good. How can you acknowledge that something is good if you are not able to fathom its absence?
Also you seem to subtract the human element in whatever bad things happen as an action of someone, acting upon his free will. If we as a species are allowed the freedom to decide, it means we can act in a good way or in a bad way. It is proof we have free will. If God only allowed good, it means we do not have free will.
Wishing children die before puberty is monstrous.
I never said I wished such thing. Don’t straw-man me.
You come into an atheism community and act all high and mighty as if you have something to impart to US?
I want to see you defend your point of view. I’m still waiting…
Many atheists I see online have been hurt by out just mock (sometimes rightfully) Christianity and then paint all religions with the same brush.
Often points are copied and shared around in such communities, like the problem of evil, without knowing that these points have been answered by scholars or philosophers.
If I’m being honest here, I don’t want you to argue out of ignorance and seek to open the door of the echo chamber to show you the other point of view so you can decide rationally.
You might think religious people (I’m talking about Islam) cannot defend their position, but it is the opposite actually with atheism.
Look things up, study, learn and make educated decisions. Don’t be afraid of your intellect.