Johan EmpaThis is a H2 fuel cell. They put two of these hydrogen fuel cells inside a regular Volvo truck.
1000 km range, up to 65 ton vehicle, fill the tank with green H2 in 15 minutes.
It's made by Cellcentric. A joint venture of Daimler Truck AG and the Volvo Group.
They have an animation and some images on how it works here.
I shared this image yesterday of the TEN-T corridors. The fuel cell trucks will be able to drive in this network by 2030. All over the EU.
It's a major achievement of the EU and European companies to create both this green H2 ready network and the trucks to drive on it.
Gasper Zejn@JohanEmpa Hmm, is that liquid or compressed hydrogen?
@hruske Hard to find any info about it. It may even be that they haven't agreed on a standard yet. This year old article seems to suggest that.
https://www.electrive.com/2022/06/21/volvo-trucks-presents-fc-truck-with-1000-km-range/
@JohanEmpa Even going with H2 is insane, but they'd have to be insanely insane to go with liquid H2. :)
proedie@JohanEmpa I am not against H2 fuelled lorries, but I think electric trains are better. 🤔
@proedie I think trains and lorries are used for two different types of cargo. We have lots of diesel trucks because they do things that trains can't do.
@proedie I agree that trains are better when they can be used, but I believe it's hard to fully get rid of long distance lorries.
@JohanEmpa Well, yes and no. We also have them because they turned out to be cheaper. They are used for things that trains can’t do as well as for things than trains can do. 🙁
Lett Osprey 
🍉 
@JohanEmpa I have near zero faith in this, and feels like again the hydrogen lobby is just pulling money from the EU that could be used for better things.
Truck transport should be last mile. Trains should handle the rest. Hence these corridors should be of no use.
Battery powered trucks are getting PLENTY of range to handle last mile transport, and with some investment in high speed chargers in strategic locations, they can replace long hauls when this is needed.
Battery tech is racing faster than anyone could expect. Hydrogen has been "trying to be a thing" for decades but is NEVER getting past the "preliminary setup"
I do not think they have any faith in this. I think they just wanna pocket "green money".
It has to stop.
@lettosprey These highway corridors already exist and have electric railroads too.
The corridors are literally the strategic locations. They will get full coverage of chargers and H2 stations. I think chargers every 60 km and H2 every 200 km.
@JohanEmpa Sure, but what does it matter when one tech is so expensive that it never ever gets out of "trial" despite tons of money being tossed at it?
More can be gained now putting money at safer, proven tech.
We have been told over and over that hydrogen will soon be "the thing" but it just never seem to happen, meanwhile battery is just getting better and better. There is no way hydrogen is going to close the gap now, if it could not back then.
Investment in hydrogen is tricky as it depends on expensive infrastructure. Solution is to toss money at it, but you then get interest more in fetching the money rather than providing solutions.
Note that we had hydrogen stations in Norway that shut down after one exploded. People had bought hydrogen cars, being told that "this is the future, stations will be built rapidly" and how have useless cars.
Ge0rG ➡️ Easter-H-Egg@JohanEmpa
H2 has just 20% of the efficiency of BEVs, so charging those trucks will be 5x the cost, and there is no future in which we'll have excess green H2 production for any markets where alternatives like BEVs can be deployed. Most of it will be consumed by air travel.
@lettosprey
H2 has just 20% of the efficiency of BEVs, so charging those trucks will be 5x the cost, and there is no future in which we'll have excess green H2 production for any markets where alternatives like BEVs can be deployed. Most of it will be consumed by air travel.
@lettosprey
@JohanEmpa
This just came in, an update of the hydrogen ladder: https://mastodon.nu/@sorenhave/111271722595780749
Long distance trucks are only in the middle of the ladder, but that doesn't solve the scarcity problem for green H2.
@lettosprey @sorenhave
This just came in, an update of the hydrogen ladder: https://mastodon.nu/@sorenhave/111271722595780749
Long distance trucks are only in the middle of the ladder, but that doesn't solve the scarcity problem for green H2.
@lettosprey @sorenhave
Søren Have (@[email protected])
Bifogad: 1 bild If you want to know what green hydrogen really is useful for, the best overview - The Hydrogen Ladder - has now been updated. #dkgreen #dkenergi https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/hydrogen-ladder-version-50-michael-liebreich
@ge0rg Theoretically supply should adjust itself to demand, shouldn't it? Cost is likely to come down also when massive amounts are needed in the industry.
Søren Have@JohanEmpa @ge0rg @lettosprey Not sure what demand and supply you refer to, but ref the study linked to below, demand for hydrogen-trucks will most likely be low, due to the costs: https://mastodon.nu/@sorenhave/111272543702560065
Søren Have (@[email protected])
Bifogad: 1 bild @[email protected] The best and most recent analysis re use of hydrogen for road transport is this one, where various uncertainties re cost of diesel, electricity, charging, batteries, fuel cells, electrolysers, etc are varied (fig 1). Hydrogen comes out as very marginal, due to operational cost, ref fig 3 below. https://www.itf-oecd.org/decarbonising-europes-trucks-minimise-cost-uncertainty NB: The analysis is for Europe. May differ in other continents. But not much, I expect. #dktrp #dkgreen
@JohanEmpa @ge0rg @sorenhave Well, cost of running on hydrogen cannot "come down" compared to electricity, as it is so wasteful compared to electricity, the price difference will be the same no matter how "scaled up" it is.
And as pointed out, we do not really have an excess of green energy, and it is therefor quite important that we use it it with as little waste as possible.
Hydrogen does not seem to be it.
And regardless, hydrogen should have had long enough to prove itself now. Already in 2002 we were told that next year loads of hydrogen cars would be on the road.
Over and over they have promised us hydrogen "coming soon" and so much money have been put in this. A LOT of tax money has gone to fueling stations that does not exist anymore.
When a tech is pushed by the ones that back oil & gas, we should be alert.
They never really have our best interest in mind.
@lettosprey
Here is an electric truck with 370km range at 40t: https://www.scania.com/group/en/home/products-and-services/trucks/battery-electric-truck.html
> 280 km added range per hour of charging for GTW 40 tonnes
> 200 km added range per hour of charging for GTW 64 tonnes
Not sure how far this is away from the mandatory pauses that drivers have to make, but we'll probably see Megawatt chargers soon that will further reduce charging time.
@JohanEmpa
Estarriol, Terrorist Dragon@JohanEmpa better solution is finding a way to have fewer lorries on the road....