pm1491
kaiaGerman is so efficient. You say "Fachkräftemangel" for "Companies not paying enough to attract suitable candidates and then complaining to the state to worsen the work environment for everyone so their shitty jobs find candidates again." what a beautiful language
lain@kaia wie, ich dachte "fachkräftemangel" liegt am rassismus
Reiner Jung 🇬🇱 🇺🇦 🇪🇺@lain @kaia tut es ja auch. Es gibt Stellen, die werden gut bezahlt und trotzdem findet sich dafür niemand.
https://service.destatis.de/bevoelkerungspyramide/index.html
Es ist einfach auch so, dass für 1.5-2 Leute, die in den nächsten Jahren in Rente gehen unten gerade mal ein Leut zu arbeiten beginnt.
bartholin (surströmming arc)@kaia And "Hartz IV" means "technically not slavery" or something. It's a beautiful language, but sometimes difficult to translate
always tired (moved to chaos)@kaia "and other companies cancelling full remote from their workers and then wondering about competent people leaving" what an efficient language indeed
AhaAchja
nettergedanke@kaia euphemisms all around. People are people, always crafting illusions to get along.
I'm not decided how to judge the moral dimension of such a habit.
I'm not decided how to judge the moral dimension of such a habit.
C.Suthorn 
Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetzesentwurfsdebattierklubdiskussionsstandsberichterstattungsgeldantragsformular
Sven Holger Wolf 🌐🇪🇺🏳️🌈
Radi@kaia that’s why I’m thinking about leaving the country.
ErnstGucker@kaia wonderfully perfect translation
cb1 @kaia and I thought Fachkräftemangel translates to employee mangle or wringer 🤔
jhx@kaia
It sometimes is.
but some word constructs can be quite heavy.
Esp. when dealing with any kind of goverment/law related wording 😂
It sometimes is.
but some word constructs can be quite heavy.
Esp. when dealing with any kind of goverment/law related wording 😂
Ann Effes@kaia
Well ... No.
(Payment is of course often an issue. But in many areas it is about the fact that there are e.g. 30 open positions and 5 suitable candidates. With payment and conditions you can regulate WHO gets the candidates, but not that all positions are filled. All in all "Fachkräftemangel" is not a subject area that lends itself well to blanket generalizations.)
@Ann_Effes this was intended as a "shitpost" - deliberately provocative. I agree that reality is more complex than can be explained in a short message. however, many people seem to like the post 
@kaia Many like the post because it offers a simple explanation to a complex problem and presents a culprit (or enemy even): "the companies".
That is dangerous in my opinion, because the topic is related to immigration: With the retirement of the boomer generation, there is a lack of workforces in many areas: we have just not enough people.
That can probably only be filled by immigrants.
Arguments that this is not the case but only about money play into the hands of xenophobes such as AfD.
Elosha@Ann_Effes @kaia
Sometimes things are simple, but the solution is not.
The amount of available people could be sufficient, but if you pay and treat them like poo (nurses, for example 👩⚕️), they leave for something better. Result in this example: Medical service fails horribly.
Waiting for „cheap workers“ without a choice is xenophobe in my eyes …
I did not say "cheap workers".
We have 2 problem which should not be mixed up:
1. If a company does not pay adequately, it will be harder to find workers.
Commonsense, but not the core of the "Fachkräftemangel".
2. There have to be people AT ALL who could be trained and paid well. And due to demographic development that is becoming a challenge.
Problem 1 can be solved with money. Problem 2 NOT. It can only be solved with immigrants, automation or way higher birthrates.
@Ann_Effes @kaia True, you did not say „cheap workers“ but that is what corporate world means when they claim they could not find „any“ workers.
Recently I read a study that fits my example above: A major percentage of care workers would immediately re-enter their jobs if they were actually treated like Fachkräfte and paid according to their work. I know some nurses, they mostly quit their jobs because of the very reasons. They don‘t want to be rich, but also not idiots.
alpha-o 💚🇪🇺🇺🇦@Ann_Effes @kaia For the IT industry, the sentence is true. „Companies“ try to find people with 20 years of experience in Data Science and AI plus Fullstack development experience Google, Amazon and Azure cloud experience and project management skills and don’t find people here in Germany for the same wages they can get from Pure Indian Players or Nearshore Players.
@alphao @kaia
I'm afraid I have to disagree here as well.
This is one of those common images that may have been true in places 5-6 years ago.
I was working in IT.
5 years ago we could find experts, often we had to decide whether we want to meet their expectations.
In the last 4-3 years it was not about payment or conditions anymore. It was only about just getting applicants. ANY applicants. We lowered our requirements and trained the people on the job (which is more expensive btw).
@Ann_Effes @kaia well, then let’s agree to disagree, as I have other experiences.
@alphao @Ann_Effes
I have the exact opposite experience interning in HR of a large German software company last year. 1% of candidates applying get hired. 96% fail the pre-screening, 4% get interviewed, 1.5% get offers and 1% accept. I was surprised at the amount of people getting filtered for formal reasons.
I have the exact opposite experience interning in HR of a large German software company last year. 1% of candidates applying get hired. 96% fail the pre-screening, 4% get interviewed, 1.5% get offers and 1% accept. I was surprised at the amount of people getting filtered for formal reasons.
@kaia @alphao
It may well be that a few very well-known companies such as SAP still have privileged access to the shrinking "Fachkräfte"-fleet and actually graze everything that is still out there.
A high rejection rate would then support my thesis: You quote "formal reasons“ which is a bit weird, agreed, but high rejection rate could also mean that the applicants are just not „Fachkräfte“.
Also this does not mean that it is the same for the broad mass of small and medium-sized companies.
HistoPol (#HP) 🏴 🇺🇸 🏴Very interesting, in particular as it was a SW company and US companies often pay double or more than the top rate in Germany, even working remotely here seems to be paying better for skilled workers, I learned recently.
So, what were the "top 5" formal reasons people were filtered out for in the prescreening?
aquascum@Ann_Effes @kaia
Have to disagree as well. I'm one of these 'desperately needed' Fachkräfte (skilled/trained labour), but I can't find a job where I can work 20 hrs/week for an adequate wage (I actually do have 20 years job experience, no, I'm not working for minimum wage). And no, I can not work full time, I'm caring for my disabled parents.
Have to disagree as well. I'm one of these 'desperately needed' Fachkräfte (skilled/trained labour), but I can't find a job where I can work 20 hrs/week for an adequate wage (I actually do have 20 years job experience, no, I'm not working for minimum wage). And no, I can not work full time, I'm caring for my disabled parents.
@aquasscum @kaia
... 20 hrs/week ...
(no matter what you obviously very good reasons are but for companies that is a problem. What most people do not realize is that with todays regulations, rules, laws, the salary is only a part of the costs of an employee. If a company has a full time job, they would need 2 of you.That doubles almost all additional costs plus may create organisational need. Also part time workers tend to expect not 50% but like 65% of the full time salary.)
🇺🇦 Anna Filina@Ann_Effes @kaia I tried looking for a job recently. I have plenty of experience and am considered an expert worldwide. And yet most companies either offer shitty salaries or work environments. I try this every 5 years or so to discover that companies get worse with time. I also know plenty of devs who spends months searching. There is no shortage. There are bad workplaces that waste people's potential and pretend there's a shortage to justify their shitty conditions and hiring practices.
R. L. Dane 
Curious, can you break down the word components and their meanings?
alastair87 (old account)@[email protected] Do Germans have lots of Schadenfreude to speakers of less efficient languages?
Patrik@kaia By now, we have „Arbeitskräftemangel“ meaning that we have less people searching for jobs than we have open positions while at the same time not allowing those people to work who flee from war and increasing efforts to send back refugees. (Have you ever tried to employ a non-EU citizen? It's hard, even if a collective labour agreement is in place.)
Ein Philosophiker@kaia Oh, German also say "Lobbyismus" when they actually mean "Korruption"
ralph_mothes@kaia and we have lobby organisations who do the complaining for those crappy companies.
DesRoin 
@kaia The jobs don't even have to be shitty, just the pay usually is ^^'
Heike W 🌈🌳@kaia And they are mocking people who get Bürgergeld, they should go work instead.
Seiðr@kaia Funny thing: Spanish companies complain about that same thing because the qualified workers emigrated to Germany, France, etc. to be paid more than the peanuts they paid here. And the cycle goes on and on…
Fuchsiii~~~
Kevin Karhan 
@kaia EXACTLY!
The problem is not finding candidates - every job vacancy can be filled - but not at every cost...
I.e. I'd consider diving in raw sewage if that filty business would get me paid 6 figures AFTER taxes...
Everyone has their price...
Alexander Knochel@kaia In English, it's called "No one wants to work anymore!!!"
Felix DF3LX@quantensalat @kaia You missed the "ö" in work.
Sean Murthy@kaia in this one case, the equivalent English word is more efficient: "foobar"