Mastodawn

In the last 20 years, I’ve read only one mostly fair and balanced unpacking of the fundamentals behind the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. It was this one, by Max Fisher. It’s 8 years old, but still mostly current.

I urge everyone, especially you GenZs who are new to this ongoing tragedy to read it. It’s important to know what’s real, what’s myth, and what’s complete bullshit. Dare I say it? “On both sides.”

“The 11 biggest myths about Israel-Palestine”
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/14/18093732/israel-palestine-misconceptions

The 11 biggest myths about Israel-Palestine

Editor’s note, October 9, 2023: This story was last updated on May 19, 2015, and some information in it may no longer be accurate. For all of Vox’s latest coverage on Israel and Palestine, see our...

Vox

Grimpen Mar Oct 12, 2023

@shoq one additional nuance missing from the myth that "Israel is a European colony" is that the majority (or at least a plurality) of Israeli citizens trace their backgrounds to Mizrahi Jews, not Ashkenazi or Sephardi.

Shoq 🌿Oct 12, 2023

True, and while I am hardly an authority on Israel or its politics, it seems that a lot of the right leaning extremism finds the most fertile soil amid the Mizrahim. Is this mostly right or wrong in your view?

Source: @grimpen
https://mastodon.social/@grimpen@mstdn.ca/111223139214160969

Martin Vermeer FCD Oct 12, 2023

@grimpen @shoq This is true, though on the other hand, the ruling class is more Ashkenazi dominated. But also, it doesn't matter much: the European Jews making up the Zionist movement did not represent European colonialism, though interacting with and partly benefiting from it. There is no 'homeland' in Europe that Israel is a settler colony of and Israelis could 'return' to: Israel *is* the homeland. Especially of the current, often already fourth or fifth generation Israelis.

Grimpen Mar Oct 12, 2023

@martinvermeer @shoq yes, and the article makes that point, that early Zionist organizations were actively suppressed by European powers (as outlined in the article). I just find it ironic that there is a myth that Jewish = European = colonizers when Israelis of Ashkenazi descent are not the majority, and that Jews have always lived in the area.

Martin Vermeer FCD Oct 13, 2023

@grimpen @shoq ...and Lord Balfour known to be an antisemite...

Benjohn Oct 12, 2023

@shoq very happy to see point two on that list so prominent!

lobster Oct 12, 2023

@shoq

Many thanks 😇🤔❤️

QueerAsInRadical Oct 12, 2023

@shoq Ouh, nice Article thanks! But still I think its a big weak point that the whole article does not talk about antisemitism. Or Iran

Mortadella Oct 12, 2023

Alexandre Hannud Abdo Oct 13, 2023

@Alexandre Oliva @Count Shoqula Hmm, no. It's got good historical facts, but it is not that good an article. And it's not current. It downplays facts that speak in favor of palestinians, like how Israel systematically failed to keep with agreements, always finding an excuse in the smallest action by the minority of radical palestinians, or simply unilaterally abandoning them, as palestinians for the most part held through while having their land grabbed and their rights and humanity violated every single day. While going as far as emphasizing (even resorting to increasing font size!) still-born goodwill offers on the part of Israel. It also downplays how "international aid" means very different things to the oppressor and oppressed sides: it barely keeps palestinians alive, while it systematically legitimates, promotes wealth, and enables Israel to arm itself like no other country. It also doesn't reflect the current events of the extreme-right taking power in Israel, with severe consequences for palestinians, the true face of Netanyahu and of many Israeli "we're just dealing with politics" old-school politicians, who have since made clear they're driven by racism, and doesn't recognize the situation of palestinians as apartheid.

Shoq 🌿Oct 13, 2023

@aleabdo The article doesn’t pretend to be an exhaustive exploration of every issue in the conflict. That could go on for a few books. It simply tries to summarize the basic myths about the conflict, and not all of its causes and effects. I think it does that. For every point you raise, a pali could raise at least one of their own. He was trying to cover the broad strokes.

Alexandre Oliva (moved to @[email protected])Oct 14, 2023

I, for one, thought that a not-current article as reference material was a plus, because it wasn't loaded by current loaded rhetoric

Alexandre Hannud Abdo Oct 17, 2023

@Alexandre Oliva @Count Shoqula I agree it has good stuff, just felt the need to raise that to me, and for what the thoughts I shared are worth, the praise was excessive. But it is definitely worth reading, and, by the way, thanks for sharing. Cheers

Shoq 🌿Oct 17, 2023

@lxo Oh you’re good. I rejected two other primers because they were much too current, and the language a bit more loaded.

Earthling Oct 13, 2023

@shoq

".... too complex to possibly understand" ???

In human evolution war began with the patriarchy 5000+ years ago, and it always was and still is about LAND!
Nothing complicated here!

Steven Zekowski Oct 30, 2023

@shoq @jgkoomey
For anyone interested in digging deeper into myths, this short book is free to download: Ten Myths About Israel. It’s well referenced, lots of citations, and written by an Israeli historian Ilan Pappé (currently at U of Exeter I think). I’m about 2/3 done. It’s very enlightening. You’ll get a somewhat different view from Fisher’s, eg, chapter 4 dispels the myth “Zionism is not Colonialism”.

https://www.versobooks.com/products/370-ten-myths-about-israel

Ten Myths About Israel

Matěj Cepl 🇪🇺 🇨🇿 🇺🇦Oct 30, 2023

Myth #2: what makes me always angry that the most pro-Israel evangelical #Christian think that it is their religious duty to support Israel against Palestinians, completely ignoring that at least quarter of Palestinians used to be Christians. Now, due to complete neglect from the Christian West and hatred from the Islamic East, they are mostly gone or dead.

Matěj Cepl 🇪🇺 🇨🇿 🇺🇦Oct 30, 2023

@shoq One more comment on Vox: it is a complete win for Putin. Vox completely and unequivocally stopped caring about #Ukraine, because #Israel is so much more sexy. Sad.