DaveWhy The Government Has Infinite Money
Daily reminder that Second Thought (zero Thought) is a
Not really. Even in the video you yourself links he’s calling an end to the conflict between Ukraine and Russia and an end to US involvement.
Wow. You are either incredibly dumb or incredibly disingenuous, just as zero thought funnily enough.
Calling it “end to the conflict” is such a slimy way to call what he actually wants. He wants ukraine to give up. He wants ruzzia to get away with everything they have done and to ignore all the atrocities they have committed.
It’s like saying that allies should have given up after Nazi germany and ussr conquered Poland. “Oh, end the conflict, so many people have died!!!” Sure, lets just let nazis happily do their genocide while we look the other way. Same as ruzzians committing active genocide in ukraine.
US involvement is the thing that actively saves innocent lives in this conflict. Shooting down missiles, giving ukranian soldiers more protection, and more ways to remove invaders from their lands.
And what do you think putting and “end” to the conflict would achieve? Ruzzia would resupply and attack in 5 years again.
If you have watched the video and not noticed the insane amount of lies, something is genuinely wrong with you. It is pure unfiltered ruzzian and Chinese propaganda. Nothing else.
unfreeradicalJT, the creator of ST, certainly has expressed various views that many find problematic, respecting Marxism-Leninism and related historic events.
Nevertheless, the ST channel itself is curated to explain values and objectives that are largely noncontroversial in leftist circles, anti-capitalist and socialist. I feel JT deserves some acknowledgment for successfully explaining such ideas while separating some of his own more controversial leanings.
The broad observation is that the political world is not divided between those who criticize NATO and also laud Putin, versus those with sympathies exactly the inverse. It is possible to criticize the practices and alignments of one’s own nation, without having distorted views about another.
Views about the Russian invasion of Ukraine are too nuanced and complex that anyone’s may be reduced meaningfully to a few lines of text. It is helpful to avoid attempting clean demarcations between right versus wrong.
Views about the Ruzzian invasion are not nuanced and complex. You either support a democratic nation that is under attack from a dictatorial fascist regime or you dont.
No, I wouldn’t expect you to recognize nuance or complexity on any subject.
Everyone who holds a different view from you, who emphasizes different objectives, concerns, or values, is by your description slimy and stupid.
No one can make you engage nuance. All I can do is reiterate that the subject is broader than what may be captured in your curt generalizations.
Oh, let me bow upon you my centrist deity!!
Do give me the nuance then. Where is the fucking nuance in this brutal attack?
I am not seeking a debate on the subject.
I am only calling for advancing beyond simplistic generalizations.
At the moment, your response to anyone who challenges your very strong views is to hurl insults. Plainly, any conditions under which a debate might be productive would require a revision of your attitude.
There is no nuance in the Ruzzian invasion of Ukraine.
There is no reason for the invasion. All given have been fabricated by kremlin propaganda as a substitute for a reason (see: shelling of “russians” in the occupied areas, “genocide” of ethnic Russians in the occupied areas and any other “justifications” of the kremlin. All of them have been proven false beyond doubt)
Invasion is illegal not only by international but by russian standards. Russia has broken its own treaty with ukraine both in 2014 and 2021.
Ruzzia is commiting vast majority if not all warcrimes. Be it execution of surrendered soldiers, non-accidental shelling of civilians, mass rape, mass murder, targeting of non militarily important targets for terror and nothing else. I can continue, if need be, there are houndreds, if not thousands of warcrimes commited by this point
Ruzzia is actively commiting genocide in the areas they have taken over. Mass killings and mass rapes are one thing, ruzzians are also kidnapping children on mass, deporting them back to ruzzia and “reeducating” them. This is, by definition, a genocide.
Ruzzia is the country that could stop any of this, at any moment they desire, its their own choice not to do so. Ukraine has no say when the way may end, until the recapture their entire territory (yes, that means Crimea, Crimea is Ukraine and that is not a disputable fact)
These are the main reasons why this conflict has no nuance. Ruzzia is 100% in the wrong, Ukraine is 100% in the right. There are a few times where wars are like this, like ww2 or united states invasion of vietnam (I’m on the side of vietnam, just to make it obvious)
Your arguments are not addressing any position that was actually presented to you.
Even someone who agreed with each point you made, and also agreed that you succeeded in rejecting some position actually presented, would not be justified in also agreeing with your rejection of all nuance.
You are simply not suited to discuss geopolitics if you believe that questions are soluble by simple statements about what is “100% right” versus “100% wrong”.
Then explain in which way is Russia right in attack in ukraine then. You calling me wrong without any reason why.
Again, you are not addressing any position actually presented.
It is beginning to seem as though your pattern is that when someone fails to affirm a position identical to yours, you impose your own invented view of the other’s position.
When you understand why such a pattern is counterproductive, then you will be beginning to deepen your engagement in nuance.
Your position is that the conflict in ukraine is nuanced. I argue that it isn’t. I gave my arguments why it isn’t you failed to give yours.
Only thing you have done is to say I’m not adressing any position presented, which is a lie.
It is beginning to seem that you have no arguments and are here simply to waste my time
Only thing you have done is to say I’m not adressing any position presented, which is a lie.
No. You have been profoundly dishonest and disrespectful throughout.
You asked me why I believe the invasion is good.
Please quote the text in which I expressed a view that the invasion is good.
You have said the conflict is nuanced, not black and white, not good or bad. I have given numerous reasons why its bad and argued rhat its only bad.
I am still waiting for the good. If there isn’t, the conflict is not nuanced.
You are dishonest in your argument as you have failed to provide even a single shred of evidence in its favor. You are disrepsectful to those who suffered greatly under fascist ruzzia by implying there is even a bit of nuance to the conflict. There isn’t.
You have said the conflict is nuanced, not black and white, not good or bad. I have given numerous reasons why its bad and argued that its only bad.
You’re extremely confused.
My position is not that whether the invasion is good or bad is ambiguous.
My position is that from the objections against the invasion itself, your broader condemnations of particular individuals and their views are not following as robustly and unambiguously as you are expressing them.
For example, it should be plain to notice that one might object both to the invasion by Russia and to the support by other countries, yet your ossified and narrow narrative allows the existence only of positions that are in agreement or disagreement with your own “100%”.
You condemn, attack, and insult everyone simply for not affirming the one particular set of ideas that you hold firmly.
How else is Ukraine supposed to defend itself, other than the support from other countries? If a bully twice the size of the victim attack them, do you watch as the bully beats the victim to a pulp or do you intervene or call the police?
People who both condemn the ruzzias invasion (jt never actually condemned ruzzia, only the west for “causing the war”, straight out of kremlin propaganda) and the support of other countries have no idea what they even talk about, as their position makes no sense.
Painting support from other countries as negative is a support to ruzzia, as they themselves have showed.
I condemn, attack and insult those who support a fascist regime, JT being one of them.
I hold my views firmly because millions of lives depend and have the same views as I do, that being that the invasion is not nuanced and is perpetrated by a brutal, dictatorial, fascist regime.
You are ranting and deriding, and arguing against a straw man.
A view can have merit other than your own, and your own can have flaws more serious than you realize.
Lives being at stake ought to make you more willing, not less willing, to engage and to refiect thoughtfully.
Unfortunately, it has seemed you are not thoughtful.
Your attitude is brash, your framing is inflexible, and your judgments are binary.
Lmfao.
You can call me whatever you want, your opinions mean less than nothing coming from pretentious dumbasses like you.
I’m not, nor I ever was arguing with a strawman, I argued with your position on the war head on and you never gave me a single argument, simply called me stupid every step of the way. I was arguing against JT as his video contains so many falsehoods in 5 minutes, its actually pretty impressive.
I was more than willing to engage with your arguments, you have failed to meet that bare minimum with your own.
I am not trying to change your opinion on the events relating to the invasion.
I was just hoping you could find a way to consider the subject without insulting and misrepresenting everyone whose views are not identical to yours.
Anyone with a shred of empathy has their opinion on the war already set, as it’s evilness is not disputable.
I have no insulted you once, until the last comment, even though you insulted my intelligence and pretty much called me stupid all the way through.
As far as JT and tankies/MLs are concerned, they deserve to be insulted as their views are horrendous and they will gladly deny or even support genocide, as long as the regime doing it has red and hammer and sickle on its flag.
I have not misrepresented your views (not arguments, you are still yet to present one), by your own words, I was at worst confused, given your own stances are incomprehensible.
I read comments about JT, and your responses to another participant in the thread.
In both cases you opened with insults, and misrepresentations of the views that were presented, and then proceeded along the same course.
In every case you have seemed unable to recognize that no one has defended the invasion or felt happy about it.
I have opened with insults, as JT is a tankie who directly with his videos supports ruzzia. I have not misrepresented JT, all of his points which I have argued against are plainly stated.
The only reason JT is unhappy about the invasion is because ruzzia is losing. He does not care a single bit about the people in ukraine, if he did, he would not be lying about the invasion and reasons for it.
I have not misrepresented JT
You did.
You keep doing it, too.
You are just too proud to notice, too cocky to stop long enough to reflect.
Give me a single example of me misrepresenting his arguments.
Attempts were made to explain how you misrepresented the position, but you have been unable to respond except by asserting further misrepresentations and hurling additional insults.
You need to stop arguing and to start reflecting.
So you couldn’t find any.
Perhaps you could try to figure out the differences between arguments someone makes and the conclusions someone arrives at, seeing those arguments.
Did JT directly say he supports the war? Of course not! That would be character suicide
Does he imply very heavily the way he argues and who he blames for the war? Absolutely.
Wars have many causes.
Some are personal. Some are systemic.
Some are immediate. Some are long term.
Putin obviously started the war.
The war also has other causes, obviously.
No thoughtful person tries to collapse the entire situation into a few terse generalizations.
Again, someone is not completely wrong because of having ideas not identical to yours.
Your understanding of others is not as accurate and robust as you believe.
I agree, wars have many causes.
This war, all of those causes are Ruzzian.
Not only has JT not once blamed ruzzia for the war, he has only misrepresented facts and directly lied about the causes.
This is not about you or me, I assume we both are intelligent enough to understand the underlying causes of the war.
Did JT deny that Putin ordered Russian troops to cross the border and then to open fire?
He never said anything about ruzzia, thats the problem. On his video about the war, all he does is blame the west for causing it
The subject of discussion is the Russian invasion of Ukraine.
If you are complaining that someone is discussing the Russian invasion of Ukraine without affirming that Russia invaded Ukraine, then you are giving a rather stupid objection.
Have you watched his video? If you have, the tone would be obvious as he never once blames ruzzia for anything, calls ukranians puppets under western control and calls the war a proxy war.
JT is an American, with a platform largely inside the US.
An American addressing other Americans about policies of the US and other NATO-aligned countries is a kind of legitimate and constructive political engagement.
It may make you feel better for someone to complain about Putin and Russia, but such complaining already happens constantly, and leads to no real accomplishments.
I little doubt that if JT somehow could influence Putin, then he would try to change his mind about the invasion. However, JT’s interest and opportunity realistically are in discussing, and at least hoping to influence, the role of the US.
Most Americans believe that the US is virtuous and exceptional, and that expansive military force is the best defense against evil people such as Putin, who are personally responsible for most of the conflict in the world.
The narrative is childish and destructive, and criticizing it is completely necessary, even if in doing so someone fails to follow the same script you would have chosen based on your own priorities and concerns.