Majority of Americans continue to favor moving away from Electoral College
cross-posted from: https://kbin.social/m/[email protected] [/c/[email protected]]/t/488620 [https://kbin.social/m/[email protected]/t/488620] > 65% of U.S. adults say the way the president is elected should be changed so that the winner of the popular vote nationwide wins the presidency.
How many dead people have been found voting for people? How many ballots in trunks of peoples cars last couple years?
These are election security issues, none of which are unique to a popular vote.
and populous states and cities controlling everything while completely taking a voice from the rest of the country
That’s not how it works. All votes are counted equal regardless of who they are or where they are from under a popular vote. Neither cities or land votes, only people do and the system should reflect that.
The rest of the country would actually get a say, whereas they don’t now because most people don’t live in a city in a swing state, which is the only place politicians cater to.
Given that the popular has only been overridden twice in two decades, it’s hardly a bitching point.
That’s not the point though. The point is that all votes should be counted equally.
And if you live in a state that is solidly blue/red then your vote is essentially meaningless. Nobody should get a bigger voice from living in a swing state, it should be everyone’s voice.
Given that the popular has only been overridden twice in two decades, it’s hardly a bitching point.
Well yeah, if you frame an argument badly of course it sounds stupid. But to properly frame the point, 2/5 elections were won while losing the popular vote, and 3/5 presidential terms would not have happened if we voted democratically (Bush won the popular vote based on being the incumbent and war fervor, which he only had because of his fraudulent win).
60% of all presidential terms since 2000 we're not won democraticly, but that's not a problem for the people who can only win that way.
. How many dead people have been found voting for people? How many ballots in trunks of peoples cars last couple years?
Tell us, how many have been found? I'm legitimately curious if you have a real source or if this is just a bunch of Mike Pillow level claims.
Lmao, you are even more pathetic than your cheeto-in-command, even he understood he lost the elections fair and square and put up a shenanigan to cover for his failure.
You still believe his lies though and this makes you even stupider than Donald Trump.
Kudos to your lack of intelligence for making you survive this far
I absolutely will should the need arise because, guess what? I believe in science and medical professionals unlike you uncultured swine.
Oh, also, the vac you are so adamant you’ll not take was developed and distributed under your cheeto-in-command administration.
“It’s a good vaccine, the best we’ve ever got” were his words if I do recall correctly. Operation warp speed was the name of the development and distribution plan if my memory doesn’t fail me.
How do you feel about that, you poor redneck? Hurts that your idol has betrayed your cause? Of course not, you aren’t able to feel or think like a human since you’re just a step above a monkey but hey, we did already know that even before you answered my comment.
Cheerio
Lmao, like I care what a waste of oxygen like you think about me. Ever seen the videos of Jeffery Epstein and Trump together at a party dancing and having a jolly good time? Well, I guess that they also must have grabbed so many pussies together too, and on the young side, if you get what I mean. And Ivanka? Oh dear, she wasn’t Jeffery’s daughter, do you think Trump did watch while he did what Epstein was used to to his daughter? I reckon he did, Trump has always has a crush for his daughter. Who also married a Jew who controlled Trump during his presidency, so much so that both the Zionists and the Saudis are still very happy with him to this day! 2 billions times happy to be precise!! The weakest president in history when it comes to racist and totalitarian regimes, ask Putin or Xi about that!!
But you won’t do shit about all of this, because even if you could understand how much Trump has fucked with your head and your sense of reality you would still vote for him 'cause you know he would give you the chance to be the worst version of yourself possible and God forbid you might become a decent human being, it’s much easier to remain a husk of a person rather than trying to improve yourself. For the first one you don’t have to do nothing, just existing and enjoying being in an animal-like state is more than enough, while for the second you need to accept that you are not perfect, work each and every day of your life to better yourself as a human by learning something or by changing an aspect of you which is not a good one.
I’ll enjoy my myocarditis as much as I enjoy Santa on December the 25th, I’ll watch children like you believe this fantasy while patting your head and telling you “sure darling, now go play with your glue but don’t eat it, it’s not good for you”. And maybe you are like a child, do you still believe a bearded man in the sky is watching everything you do while being an absolute asshole with his judgment? Please tell me you think Jesus is your saviour and that Mary was a virgin after childbearing, this would complete the picture of the moron you already are XD XD XD XD
So leaving our elections up to L.A. and NYC.
Combined those might round up to 4% of the population of the United States. Explain again how they'll control the outcome of a popular election?
Implicit in your argument is the self-evidently fair notion that the country should not be controlled by a minority ... except that is precisely what the Electoral College allows and what the popular vote makes impossible. Under the EC, the president is effectively decided only by voters in a dozen or so swing states (which exact states are in play varies by year but the number is pretty consistent). Candidates literally don't even campaign for votes in the other ~38 states, just sometimes making brief fundraising stops.
The founding fathers cobbled together a stop-gap system that placated the oh-so-varied interests of different groups of privileged white men. It wasn't fair then and it has no moral justification in the present day. It's an affront to the basic principles of self-government now that we've expanded "self" to finally mean all Americans.
So then you agree that it is a terrible idea for our votes to be weighted based on where people live, so that we can avoid things like individual cities swaying the vote?
I think so too. Everybody’s vote should be equal, which is why we should have a popular vote instead of the electoral collage.
The whole point is that the electoral college is a bad way of determining agreement.
All votes should be equal.
But it isn’t equitable because politicians only ever pay attention to swing states.
And people should be represented equally. The location of a citizen shouldn’t effect the strength of their voice.
If it was population based, they’d only pay attention to large populations.
Don’t get me wrong, I continue not to care.
I love how conservatives do not care about any topic yet they spend their precious time writing tons of comments on topics they definitely do not care about…
It’s nice to see who the real snowflakes are from time to time :D
Then maybe it’s time you accept who you really are and throw your centrist mask.
Anyone preferring the Electoral College to a direct democratic vote for the president election is a downright conservative in my eyes as he (or she) prefer to keep things as they are (conserve) even if these things are proven to be worst than an already existing alternative.
Glad I could show you your true colours, I hope you’ll be more honest with yourself and everybody around you from now on. Even if I doubt it, since you are a conservative and conservatives flee from truth as vamiprea flee the sunlight.
And yet, where presented with an answer explaining you that democracy = all votes have the same value (which is the literal definition of democracy ( you decided to answer “no thanks” and proceeded to keep your wrong line of thinking.
That’s not lazy thinking, that’s no thinking at all. Just like a conservative would do.
Why does the state matter at all…?
Why should a vote be counted differently depending on the state it was cast in?
Presidents that seem to like executive decrees these days*
Idk man, not saying it’s likely they’d do that, just saying “having a few cities be largely responsible for selecting the head of the executive branch may not be desireable to those living in between.”
Figured people would be able to not take everything literal, but this is the internet where metaphor is replaced with dunking on someone you decide is mentally inferior, my mistake.
if say LA, NYC, CHI, and DC all vote to ban cars because they feasibly can and they have the population density to make it happen
Nobody is trying to do that. That’s just a boogeyman the media is telling you to get you riled up.
It was designed to be unequal on purpose
What a convincing argument of its continued existence.
The electoral is what keeps us from being ruled by the masses.
It doesn’t do that, all it does is give people in swing states a bigger voice than anybody else, which is a terrible thing for our country.
Everybody should have a voice, instead it’s just a handful of people in a small set of states.
Doesn’t sound like you’re a conservative or believe in a republic.
A popular vote would mean the costal areas would have the largest vote and rural areas would get ignored.
It would quickly lead to a breakup up of the union.
Doesn’t sound like you’re a conservative
I’m not.
or believe in a republic.
I do. But ours is in need of reform to make it a better republic that more accurately reflects the will of the people.
A popular vote would mean the costal areas would have the largest vote and rural areas would get ignored.
That’s already what happens under the electoral college.
And every single other electected position in government goes by what is essentially a popular vote, if this was such a problem, all other positions would also be electoral college.
It would quickly lead to a breakup up of the union.
The U.S. is the only country that uses an electoral college. All other countries that exist, and are democratic republics use a popular vote and they’re just fine.
If a popular vote for presidency would cause the destruction of this country, why hasn’t popular vote for all other positions done so already? It’s because this is just fearmongering based on zero evidence. Actually it’s worse, because there is plenty of evidence it wouldn’t do this because of the aforementioned other countries that use popular vote.
Not sure you understand what a republic.
Every other vote is at a state level. What other position is elected nationally?
They’re not fine. They’re ok. America is unique and why we are the only super power.
We only do popular votes at the state level.
What other position is elected nationally?
The level at which the election runs is not what I am getting at.
We only do popular votes at the state level.
And they don’t destroy our country despite our states having a rural/urban divide. So our federal elections should be no different.
The level makes a difference. We are a combination of states.
Popular vote for the president would destroy our country. It’s not going to happen unless we are ready for the nation to break up. The smaller states will leave.
The level makes a difference.
No it doesn’t. If a popular vote would destroy this country because of the imbalance between rural/urban areas, then it would have already done so on a state level.
You’ve yet to make compelling argument
I’ve said it in several other places in this thread.
All votes should be counted equally.
as to why we would change a system that works perfectly.
It doesn’t work perfectly.
It makes it so that if you don’t live in a swing state, your vote is effectively meaningless. If you’re a democrat in a heavy republican state, then your vote will never go towards supporting your candidate of choice. If you’re a republican in a heavy republican state, the same applies. If you’re a republican in a heavy republican state, your vote also doesn’t do shit, because your state was going to vote republican anyway. Unless you’re in a swing state, the current system basically ignores you.
It also makes it so presidential candidates only ever cater towards swing states, and the cities within those swing states. All the rest of the states are basically ignored.
The electoral collage prevents third party candidates from ever having a chance because it is inherently a FPTP system, which inherently biases a two party system, which is a huge part of why our country is so fucked right now.
And on top of all of that, there have been several elections in which the candidate with the most votes has lost. That is a broken system.
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