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Alabama inmate opposes being ‘test subject’ for new nitrogen execution method

https://lemmy.world/post/5756830

Alabama inmate opposes being ‘test subject’ for new nitrogen execution method - Lemmy.world

An Alabama inmate would be the test subject for the “experimental” execution method of nitrogen hypoxia, his lawyers argued, as they asked judges to deny the state’s request to carry out his death sentence using the new method. In a Friday court filing, attorneys for Kenneth Eugene Smith asked the Alabama Supreme Court to reject the state attorney general’s request to set an execution date for Smith using the proposed new execution method. Nitrogen gas is authorized as an execution method in three states but it has never been used to put an inmate to death. Smith’s attorneys argued the state has disclosed little information about how nitrogen executions would work, releasing only a redacted copy of the proposed protocol.

Sep 26, 2023 at 10:33amWeb
Show threadChaoticNeutralCzechSep 26, 2023

I don’t know much about asphyxiation but it does not sound comfortable. Concerning lethal injection, it’s not certain how much pain the paralyzed body feels as the heart is being stopped – have there been EEG studies?

I would prefer execution by firing squad.

Show threadVenutianxspringSep 26, 2023
It’s supposed to be very painless. If I remember correctly your body can’t tell the difference between oxygen and nitrogen so you don’t have a feeling of lack of air, just continue breathing normally then fall asleep and expire.
Show threadTelexSep 26, 2023
Generally, the build up of CO2 is what triggers pain and panic of asphyxiation. Oxygen displacing gases certainly do cause fast unconsciousness and brain damage. Would seem very likely that nitrogen works well.
Show threadWVbrUSep 26, 2023

The human body can only detect a buildup of carbon dioxide in the lungs, not a lack of oxygen. This is why it’s uncomfortable to hold your breath for a long time. If you inhale pure nitrogen while being able to exhale, there is no build up of CO2 and therefore little to no discomfort.

Wikipedia cites a USAF text, saying: “Some individuals experience headache, dizziness, fatigue, nausea and euphoria, and some become unconscious without warning.”

Show threadZoboomafooSep 26, 2023

This is why it’s uncomfortable to hold your breath for a long time.

If you want to try it at home, try inhaling the air inside a soda bottle

Show threadHubertManneSep 26, 2023
over holding your breath because they are both co2???
Show threadZoboomafooSep 26, 2023
That just doesn’t sound practical
Show threadHubertManneSep 26, 2023
yes. thus my confusion.
Show threadFuglyDuckSep 26, 2023

have there been EEG studies?

there have and it’s horrendous.

In any case, displacing oxygen with nitrogen is one of those things that you’d never notice until it was too late. because your body bases it’s breathing off how much air your sucking in, you don’t even start hyper ventilating.

Show threadQuinceDaPenceSep 26, 2023

There's plenty of knowledge about the effects of nitrogen from it being a workplace hazard in a lot of places.

One example is anchor chain lockers on ships. That big iron chain that just came out of the salt water wants to turn into iron oxide so it absorbs all the oxygen making the environment extremely nitrogen rich. In several cases people have been climbing down into it and without warning go unconscious. I think one case had three dead at the bottom before the fourth guy comes along with some brains and thinks maybe I shouldn't go down there.

Show threadNeilSep 26, 2023
Lol, way to shoot yourself in the foot. Nitrogen hypoxia is probably the absolute most humane execution method ever conceived. This is not new info either. You literally slip into happy fun time and never come out.
Show threadharrim4nSep 26, 2023
Might be trying to delay the execution itself since there is a shortage of the “regular” injection they use because of embargoes?
Show threaditsdavethoSep 26, 2023
Completely ignoring that execution is wrong for a number of reasons
Show threadNeilSep 26, 2023
I also completely ignored the issue of world hunger in my reply. I don’t get your point.
Show threadThrowawayPermanenteSep 26, 2023
Why would you even bring up hunger when human trafficking exists in the world? Shame on you.
Show threadPetDinosaursSep 26, 2023

Guys, I think I found a solution to both. Hear me out.

What if we feed the trafficked humans to the hungry humans.

Win win. No more trafficked humans and no more hungry humans.

Show threadNeilSep 26, 2023
I change my mind. THIS is now the most humane execution method ever conceived.
Show threadEezyvilleSep 26, 2023
You’ve experienced this?
Show threadFlying SquidSep 26, 2023

You literally slip into happy fun time

Is it really ‘happy fun time’ if you know you’re going to die?

Show threaddarqSep 26, 2023

Weirdly enough, it might be. There are videos of people deliberately testing hypoxia. I've seen one where the person controlling the test told the participant "you know you are dying right now, right?" and the participant responded "Oh" with a big smile. Now maybe the participant was more chill because they knew beforehand that they weren't actually going to die. But they were still completely non-phased watching their brain shut down in real time.

I'm opposed to the death penalty. But if I had to choose my own way out of this world? Hypoxia is probably top of the list.

Show threadChainweaselSep 26, 2023
Listen to audio recordings of pilots with hypoxia, they understand something is very wrong with the plane, but they also think it’s just fine because they’re having a great day.
Show threadKalkaline Sep 26, 2023
I always think about Destin from Smarter Everyday when I think about hypoxia. He does such a great job at articulating what he experienced and how difficult it was to know what to do in that moment.
Show thread3ntrancedSep 27, 2023
I always think of thatt moment when they’re like “it’s time to put your mask back on or you’re going to die destin!” and he just looks at them with a terrified half smile and was barely capable of saying “I don’t know what to do…”
Show threadScotty_TreesSep 28, 2023
Which video was that? Would greatly appreciate a link if you can find it, thank you!
Show threadTimewornTravelerSep 28, 2023
delivered
Show threadKalkaline Sep 28, 2023
Yeah that’s the one, I figured with those key words people could easily find it.
Show threadQuinceDaPenceSep 26, 2023
I got a bit hypoxic on top of a mountain. It was 29°F with the wind you'd expect at 14000ft, and I'm just standing there in a t-shirt because I was just so nice and warm, also I was so loopy I could not stop laughing.
Show threadAgent641Sep 26, 2023
Did you die?
Show threadteheviloneSep 26, 2023
Yes, but they got better after.
Show threadAgent641Sep 26, 2023
Phew
Show threadsnooggumsSep 26, 2023

If done right. You know that people qualified to do it right don't participate in executions, right?

That's why they fuck up giving someone injections on a regular basis.

Show threadshalafiSep 26, 2023
How does one fuck up flooding a room with nitrogen gas?
Show threadsnooggumsSep 26, 2023
Step 1: Be incompetent.
Show threadshalafiSep 26, 2023

So you see no difference in lethal injection and filling a room with nitrogen? If not, there’s no point discussing it with you. But I’ll give you a hint! Worst case, there’s not enough NO2 to cause death, so the subject gets stoned as balls and they introduce more.

This ain’t rocket science.

Show threadsnooggumsSep 26, 2023

I see no difference in an incompetent person trying something they are not qualified to do and then trying to do another thing they are unqualified to do. I expect them to fail at both.

You also don't appear to understand how the NO2 process works. It isn't that they just need to add more N02, they also need to remove the oxygen AND CO2 at the same time. That is actually fairly complicated and requires knowledge on air movement in a restricted space. If they can't properly dose someone with needles, good luck on them doing it right with airflow.

Show threadDarthBuellerSep 28, 2023
This isn’t a “gas chamber” type of execution. They’re putting a mask on the person with N2 gas. Though the state’s executioners are so incompetent that they’ll probably end up gassing themselves.
Show threadbookmeatSep 26, 2023
The issue is with the specific protocol being used. It’s not made public or documented. It’s almost all though they’re interested in torturing him instead of humanely executing him.
Show threadstewie3128Sep 27, 2023

When the original news broke about Alabama using nitrogen, my wife woke me up by hitting my arm to tell me - because I’ve been saying that is the most humane possible method for the last 16 years.

I think the death penalty is stupid to begin with, and am kinda over talking about its merits after years of debate team in high school and college. But trying all of these seat-of-pants cocktails of midazolam and pentobarbital etc, and then inventing all of these ridiculous devices that require two people to push buttons at the same time so no one ever really knows whose button actually killed the person… it’s just needlessly complicated and dumb. Not to mention the fact that the legal costs involved in defending appeals and housing someone on death row are much higher than the cost of a life sentence anyway. And that’s leaving aside the statistically significant number of wrongful convictions…

I mean, we shouldn’t have the death penalty. But if we’re going to, it should be by nitrogen hypoxia.

Show threadDarthBuellerSep 28, 2023
I am split - there shouldn’t be a death penalty, and the horrors of botched executions go a long way toward undermining support for the system. While nitrogen hypoxia would be humane, it also makes the death penalty so much easier to sell. Part of me would rather have it be barbarous to undermine support. Though I can see the state being so incompetent that they end up gassing half of the executioners along with the inmate, even though they’re just putting a mask on the inmate’s face.
Show threadHerbalGamerSep 26, 2023
I’ll take it if he doesn’t want it.
Show threadPsychedSySep 26, 2023
I was gonna say they could test on me, but I don’t want to support the death penalty.
Show threadbobmanSep 26, 2023
Unless they’re pedophiles!
Show threadHerbalGamerSep 26, 2023
WoO stupid take
Show threadbobmanSep 26, 2023
Why?
Show threadHerbalGamerSep 26, 2023
Pedophiles usually don’t want to be pedophiles and won’t act on their desires; they’re just quietly suffering from mental illness and just their existence shouldn’t change someone’s stance on the death penalty.
Show threadbobmanSep 26, 2023

Yeah, I’m talking about the pedophile who do act on their desires.

Sorry that needs to be spelled out for you.

Show threadbutterflyattackSep 26, 2023
I agree that there are some crimes so horrible that the offenders no longer deserve to live. The trouble is that I don’t trust police and the courts to correctly identify the guilty all of the time. Until there’s a system that can prove guilt with 100% accuracy we shouldn’t have a death penalty.
Show threadZealousideal_Fox900Sep 28, 2023
Yeah. Look at I think it was either south korea or taiwan but one of them went and grabbed a dude for murder and then killed him, came out a few months later he was nowhere fucking near the crime and was completely innocent. They grabbed another dude and did the same. Wrong. Again. They never even found the actual killer.
Show threadSerinusSep 26, 2023

To make the same point in a less sarcastic way, it is a problem that just throwing the term pedophile at someone immediately ostracizes them and society is willing to condem them to effective death.

It’s so bad that a jury doesn’t even really need evidence to indict. Because apparently seeing one, potentially censored image is enough to cause PTSD?

I’ve seen people being decapitated without getting PTSD. I’ve seen horrible things from the Holocaust. I don’t think one image is going to cause permanent damage. (I fully believe dealing with this stuff every day for years can be an issue. That’s different.)

We need to drop just a bit of the hysteria.

Show threadbutterflyattackSep 26, 2023
A while back round where I live a guy was burned to death by a mob of his neighbours because people were saying he was a pedophile. Turned out he had only been taking photos of kids vandalising his garden. Oops.
Show threadAshyrSep 26, 2023
Link to that news article?
Show threadbutterflyattackSep 27, 2023
theguardian.com/…/vigilante-murder-paedophile-bri…
Investigations opened into vigilante murder of man mistaken for paedophile

IPCC and Bristol council review dealings with Bijan Ebrahimi, burned to death by neighbours after photographing vandals

The Guardian
Show threadAshyrSep 27, 2023
Thanks for sharing, but, at the same time, I really wish it wasn’t true.
Show threadZealousideal_Fox900Sep 28, 2023
They should’ve given the people who did it a life order with all chances of parole chewed up, spat out, burnt up and the ashes shot into oblivion before being buried 900 feet underground.
Show threadDarthBuellerSep 28, 2023
Holy fucking shit. It never once occurred to me that lynching was a thing in the modern UK. Mass stabbings? Sure. Getting mugged and beaten by gangs of teens, okay. But straight up lynching? Fuck.
Show threadangrystegoSep 26, 2023
I agree with you when it comes to the ostracizing problem. I would just like to remind you that not everyone is psychologically identical to you. Some (perhaps many) people CAN get PTSD by looking at a picture of a terrible crime.
Show threadSerinusSep 26, 2023
I don’t think a bunch of people got PTSD from 4chan 2004.
Show threadangrystegoSep 26, 2023
I don’t think willing participants count ;)
Show threadWldFyreSep 26, 2023
Ah yes, 4chan, full of normal, well-adjusted people
Show threadDarthBuellerSep 28, 2023
I have seen some horrible shit too. Like that girl and her male cousin rapping in a bathroom with a gun, and she winds up accidentally killing her cousin and then killing herself after she realized what she did. Yeah, never going to forget that. Don’t have PTSD from it, but definitely was traumatic.