I don’t like Joe Biden, but this isn’t a presidential approval poll, it’s an election, and he’s clearly better than any of the alternatives. And when it comes down to it, he’s been better than I expected. We could have just had an exclusively centrist presidency, and while there’s been plenty of centrism, he has been persuadable to progressive action.

And frankly even if you can’t bring yourself to express support Biden for some reason, it should be pretty easy to want anyone who willingly associates with Republicans to lose and lose badly, because they’re way beyond stealth-mode fascism now. Even the most jaded “they’re all neolibs” voter from earlier elections can’t possibly ignore that the Republicans are just fash now. There’s a real danger if they win that cities end up with federally tasked jackboots kidnapping protesters like Portland.

Nope. Voting for Cornel West. I think Marianne Williamson is also a significantly better candidate.

So you like Trump for 2024, then? Noted.

Perfect summary of how fucked the two party system and partisan identity in the US is. “Oh you don’t want to get behind a party that supports the Palestinian genocide? Trump lover!” You basically have a moderate rainbow capitalist center right party, and a fashy culture war right party, they have the same donors and corrupt capital directing their policies though. The vote is like picking the aesthetic you want to see things degrade under.

These two things can be true at the same time:

The two-party system is structurally bad for the country. We really, really need ranked-choice or approval voting, and have needed them for a long time.

If you are a voter in a contested (“purple”) state and don’t vote for Biden, you will be thereby supporting the election of a fascist candidate, which will make you a material supporter of fascism.

Feel free to vote for West if you live in, say, California. But in a contested state, a vote for West is a vote for Trump (or his replacement as Führer).

There is an actual, material difference between the center-right big-business party (the Democrats) and the fascist party. If you don’t believe me, go ask a gay schoolteacher from Florida.

You can’t blame 3rd party / nonvoters for the faults of republican voters. Mentality like that is why we are stuck with point number 1.

Sure I can. Every eligible voter who did not vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 shares partial blame for Trump winning. Less than people who voted for Trump, but more then none at all.

Personally I would put more blame on the democrats for not fielding a better candidate that could have beaten trump not the people who didn’t vote for a shit candidate

That’s too many layers of assumptions. I can tell you for a fact that not voting for Hillary lead directly to Trump winning in 2020. We have no idea how another candidate would have done running against him in the general.

Well first yes we do based on Biden winning 2020.

Secondly Voting for trump directly lead to trump winning. At best not voting for Hillary indirectly Lead to trump winning.

No you cannot compare running against Trump in 2016 to running against him in 2020. I knew how terrible he was in 2016, but a lot of people had to see it to believe it. Even a few weeks can flip an election. Hillary very well could have won without the idiotic weekend announcement before Election Day of meaningless information by the FBI.

I agree that a lot of people had to see trump as president before they knew he was a bad president.

i just disagree with blaming people who didn’t vote for trump for trump being elected.

hell I kinda disagree with blaming trump supporters for trumps actions. the people I know that like him are old, uneducated, rural, or deeply Christian, they don’t know how to think critically. They don’t question the news they get and they only get news from a single source that tells them they are right. they are in a cult, and in a cult the cultists are victims. the leaders are the ones to blame.

Fox News, oan, tucker Carlson, Donal trump are the people to blame for trumps presidency, Jan 6th and project 2025 not the people who voted for him, and certainly not the people who didn’t vote for him.

It has nothing to do with being uneducated. Kindness doesn’t require a college degree. Trump has always been a bully, and he ran on being a bully. Someone was ok with that is ok to be blamed imo. I put some blame not all.

That’s the tricky part of a cult, you get convinced to do things you wouldn’t normally do. The trump supporters I know raised their kids to be better, but were just vulnerable enough to be convinced that Trump would bully the bullies and protect the weak, which was a complete lie.

I empathize and hope for them to have the strength to let go of their brain washing and work to fix what has been broken.

That’s fine if they admit they were wrong and voted against him in 2020, great. If not, it’s not my responsibility to reprogram them. They are adults and are responsible for their own actions. If they want to change I welcome it. If you acknowledge the blame and correct it, we’re good.

I get not wanting to put yourself out there to try and help, and it’s really hard not to just be a dick to people you disagree with.

but if the question is how do we stop fascism the answer isn’t blame them or make them feel guilty about it, it’s reaching out and helping them out of it. they are people and people are stupid stubborn afraid and in need of support from other people.